Thursday, July 05, 2007

Belated happy July 4 from Poland


Poles still like the Americans, but not nearly as much as they used to.

According to the Global Attitudes Project by the Pew Research Center, 61 percent of Poles have positive feelings towards the United States. That’s higher than the average in Europe.

But support for America is declining in Poland. Back in 2000 – only seven years ago - 86 percent of Poles supported the United States.

So Poland may be one of the best friends America has got in this part of the world, but if the trend over the last decade is anything to go by, then this support is becoming more and more lukewarm.

24 comments:

Puppeteer said...

Nah
We Romanians support it 1000%.
On the other hand, we Syrians support it -10000%.

Anonymous said...

I'd like to see the poll results of expat Americans who still like/support America!!! After being away from the country for 4 years, I find myself actively hating my country and most of the people from it. Mainly the Americans I meet over here in Europe. But oh well...the problem with American policies is that they are certainly not going to win any friends and support.

Topcat said...

Sorry Poland, but you'll have to head to the end of the line of countries that hate us Americans. I'm kinda getting used to it! :)

Topcat said...

Oh and Anonymous, you sound like such a great guy. We're sorry to miss you.

Renegade Eye said...

Higher than Albania?

Damien Moran said...

I was due to be born on the 4th of July in 1980, but ended up 8 days late- a precedent I have found difficult to shake off!

Do the maths above and this is what you get - a southern Irish boy born on the 12th of July; not exactly one to be triumphantly blasted from the rooftops in County Offaly, even though fenianism was fairly limited to the pub rebel song quartet after midnight when the porter taps had run dry.

As for American Independance Day Celebrations - fuck the fireworks, just debunk your colossal amount of worldwide military bases, compensate the Native Injuns, Iraqis, etc. etc. etc. and then I'll break my pledge and down an estuary load of champagne with yiz.

Until then, fuck your pseudocracy!

europejczyk said...

"Nations don't have friends, the only have interests" (Charles de Gaulle).

jannovak57 said...

Not surprising that the Poles still have positive feelings for America as a large proportion of Polish families have someone who moved to the US. There are around 8 to 10 million Americans who claim Polish ancestry but having said that most of these people are fully absorbed into the “melting pot”. The actual number polish speakers in America is though to be around 500,000 thus making Poles who have retained their ethnicity a relatively small and un-influencial group.

America is viewed by most people as being more than just it’s current foreign policy; George Bush is a temporary condition. It is possible to like America and be apposed to the current foreign policy.

The Poles are selective about what they like for instance Ronald Regan is getting a few statues erected to him and the some town squares renamed for him however FDR isn’t likely to get the same.

Yes we may like America but we probably don’t really know why. We have no serious trading relationship with the US, nowadays only small numbers of people are moving there and we don’t share a lot cultural similarities. American society did treated Polish immigrants as “white niggers”.

Our collective perception is that America was the only external voice calling for our freedom while old Europe had done it’s usual mindless appeasement routine or played the part of the official apologist for the soviet system. Therefore we have engaged the Americans in a Faustian bargain, our unconditional support for a false sense of security.

europejczyk said... "Nations don't have friends, the only have interests" (Charles de Gaulle).

Every Pole should burn this thought into to his or her brain, the minute Polish and American interests no longer coincide Poland becomes an expendable chess piece.

Remember Yalta and our Western Allies.

Graeme said...

Hey, we want to put up a missile shield in your country. That ought to spike up our approval percentage.

Anonymous said...

Actually Topcat, I am a great guy...just commenting on the fact that most of the Americans I've met over here are morons. But that's cool if you want to insult. Maybe it'll make you feel better. Cheers

Topcat said...

Hey Jonnovak,

American society did treated Polish immigrants as “white niggers”.

That assimilation was before my time. But I think the same occurred for the Irish, Italians, etc. Thats why they lived together in neighborhoods at first. But those neighborhoods are mostly gone now.

Sosh said...

>>Graeme said...

>>Hey, we want to put up a missile shield in your country. That ought to spike up our approval percentage.

Oh yeah, because that will really do the country more good than harm, huh.

jannovak57 said...

Hosting the missile system is in itself is one of the strangest manifestations of the Faustian bargain. This is a system that militarily means nothing to anyone, it has no effect on Russian military power, it makes no actual contribution to Polish defence capability and it doesn’t work when it comes to its intended purpose.

But politically and psychologically it’s a different story.

For the Russians and Poles it’s a tangible manifestation representing the official end of Poland’s status as a vassal state and Russian ability to influence it former vassal state. This represents a break with the past and a conclusion of a process that has been taking place over nearly two decades..

Also for the Russians it the best political gift the Kremlin could get. There is a need on the part of the Kremlin to create an enemy in order to deflect people’s attention from a corrupt and increasingly authoritarian regime. The west was the Kremlins best choice since it could result in distancing themselves from the more unfortunate aspects of the EU such as democracy and the rule of law. Although the Russians have concerns about China this is overridden by China being their best arms customer.

For the Poles it also manufactures coinciding set interests between Poland and the US in defence matters. With the installation of a costly military asset on Polish soil it forces America to consider Polish defence needs more seriously.

For the Americans it takes them closer to their dream of an anti-missile system directed against perceived treats from rogue states (notwithstanding it still in the R&D phase). It gives a certain sector of the military industrial complex a huge financial windfall.

With something for everyone and after all of that it’s a 50/50 chance that congress will approve the funds.

geez said...

American society treated Polish immigrants as “white niggers”.

With the global economy, now we can treat Polish nationals as such. Dat's progress! Makes ME ME ME right proud to be a Polish American!

geez said...

Yer still fuckin' vassals as far as I can see. Or is it peasants? Something from John Lennon....

Think maybe you're just exchanging one lord for another? Actually, I spoze I'd pick the US, too, if the only other realistic alternative is Russia.

it’s a tangible manifestation representing the official end of Poland’s status as a vassal state and Russian ability to influence it former vassal state.

Topcat said...

Jannovak,
I still remember Gorbachev and Regan going back and forth about "Star Wars". Scared the *&^% out of the Russians then. The wall came down not long after.

Putin wants to be friends with Europe, but on his terms. He doesn't like you, get ready for the big chill cuz theres no heat.

Its fun to watch 'em sweat, if nothing else. The Poles gotta love it.

Gees, you don't like it.. GET OUT!
I'm guessing we don't need you.

opamp said...

This is a system that militarily means nothing to anyone, it has no effect on Russian military power, it makes no actual contribution to Polish defence capability and it doesn’t work when it comes to its intended purpose.

It does however make a very nice high-priority target in case of war. Which means that the hosting country is hosed even in case of a very limited nuclear exchange, because the radioactive fallout from the strike will fall on the nearby cities.

geez said...

UB right, Top Cat, you don't need me. But I don't need you, either.

Watch 'em sweat!?! What a sick way of looking at the world!

beatroot said...

Novak
This is a system that militarily means nothing to anyone

Agreed. I know that Putin was just trying to disorientate the US at the G8 with his new proposals but when you look at them – on the basis of what Washington is saying about ‘rogue states’ etc it makes more sense than the one we are going to get.

And even if it is really meant to be against Russia then it is completely useless. The system in Slupsk would be far to small to cope with any barrage from Moscow.

europejczyk said...
"Nations don't have friends, the only have interests" (Charles de Gaulle).

On a utilitarian basis, can you prove hown this missile system is in ‘Poland’s best interests..’?

Geez
It’s ‘fuckin pesants’…from Working Class Hero. And Topcat, telling people if they don’t like a country they should ‘get out’ is not very…um…democratic, is it? The Civil Rights leaders in the 1960s didn’t like the way America was so they stayed in their own country and changed it for the better.

mnuez said...

Don't forget though that the Poles loved us at the start of the Iraq War. We aren't losing much love from masses of people because we went to war but because we're LOSING said war.

Everybody loves a winner.

When we looked like we were full of resolve, power and self-assuredness we were the alpha male and thus everyone announced how much they loved us - regardless of whether what we were doing was the greatest good or the worst evil. And now when we appear impotent, blind and unsure of ourselves we're pretty much sneered at and snubbed - regardless of whether what we're doing is the greatest good or the worst evil.


Looking at "World Opinion" as some sort of moral barometer is laughably stupid. The world loves the powerful and despises the weak - good and evil have nothing to do with the matter.

mnuez

www.mnuez.blogspot.com

michael farris said...

"Don't forget though that the Poles loved us at the start of the Iraq War"

Which Poles were those? Certainly not most of those living in Poland.

There was a tremendous, heartfelt outpouring of sympathy after 9/11, but W's mad plan to (do what, exactly?) in Iraq has never had the support of the majority of Polish people and as the occupation has crumbled amid incompetence and indecision they're mostly feeling they were right.

Also, US butt-headedness over visas (a very emotional topic here) and the F-16 debacle have sapped Polish support for the current administration. Meanwhile the UK opened up their borders and labor market and most Poles are almost fanatically pro-British now (and secondarily pro-EU as the sum-total of membership has visibly improved living standards.

And what does the US do to gain Polish support? The option to participate in a crappy, pointless military project that will make the country a prime target for nuclear weapons.

I love my country (really, I do) but the US government (especially the current administration) has _no_ understanding of how to deal with people. Watching it in action is like watching a rich, autistic guy with a mean streak trying to make small talk.

Anonymous said...

Michael farris is 100% right. Especialy F16 case is painfull for us because it was the worst deal that was possible from econimical point of wiev. I also realize that it is our fault - we signed the contact although we were not forced to ... but as we say in Polish: "niesmak pozostaje".

Visas: nowadays it is not a big problem since everyone prefer to go to UK or Eire. It is only 2 hohrs away form home/family. Tickets are cheap (even less than 100 euro vs 1000 euro to US) and working there is legal. Who would like to go to US instead? Only for turist purposes. But if I am forced to pay 100 USD for applying for turist visa with no warranty to get it... no thanks!

Anonymous said...

Why should anyone be shocked when this missile defense base is being jammed down Poland's throat

Anonymous said...

Also, 20 Polish soldiers dead for nothing in Iraq