Sunday, July 15, 2007

Krzysztof Bosak – more popular with gays than voters

Bosak, Christian nationalist and youngest member of the Polish parliament, is a Polish gay icon.

I was just watching TVN Style cable channel and there was an interview with Polish lawmaker and former head of ultra Catholic All Polish Youth, Krzysztof Bosak.

Mr Bosak has, what some refer to as, rather homophobic views, as does his party, League of Polish Families. He was part of what turned out to be a violent protest against gays marching in Krakow last year. As reported by the UK Guardian:

Waving a red-and-white Polish flag at the Krakow march with fellow protesters from the Catholic Mlodziez Wszechpolska youth group, Krzysztof Bosak said: "Violence is bad but there is no way you can protest against this abnormality without violence."

The interviewer on the program asked him how many voters voted for him in the last election.

“I think it was around three and a half thousand,”, he said (under a PR list system it is possible to get elected to a national parliament with very low number of votes).

The host of the program then said:

“But on a recent poll for Poland’s greatest ‘Christian nationalist gay icon’ you got 14,000 votes…”

Bosak was understandably slightly disorientated by this.

It means, of course, that 11,000 more people voted for him as a gay icon than they did to represent voters in the Polish parliament.


By the way, listen to an ‘interesting’ interview with Bosak in English here.


Anonymous said...

I do not know much about Mr. Bosak, but if my gaydar is working correctly, I would say he is gay.
But if it is not working than....well, he looks gay anyway.

a portuguese man in warsaw

Frank Partisan said...

Maybe some will get out of the closet and vote,

I remember you wrote about that gay rights demonstration last year. Would the situation be different now?

Venezuela had a govt. supported peaceful gay rights demo. Pretty good for a Catholic country.

beatroot said...

The there is an obsession, and strange fascination, about gays among these types of people. But I think that the issue has lost a bit of its previous shine for them. It was useful as a rallying point for their politics – homosexuals, like the EU – like Jewishness – that was NOT POLISH. It helped them get the votes out, it helped them feel unity. But it’s become a bit stale. They have been more interested in the de-communization thing recently….

michael farris said...

In others words, it's all about finding scapegoats (the curse of central european politics).

I notice that Rydzyk's latest tactic is to blame .... intellectuals! They're all part of the układ don'cha know.

michael farris said...

I tried to give the interview a try but it was too much like final exams, listening to banal ideas in stumbling English, yechh.

Why interview Polish politicians in English anyway? The chances of them saying anything interesting (or halfway intelligent) are much greater if they're interviewed in Polish and then translated.

Anonymous said...

The fascination of gay people with far-right ideology is a known fact. So that poll result isn't strange.

What is more interesting, is that far-right organizations are know to have sizable gay membership:

Ray Hill, who infiltrated the British fascist movement for twelve years to gather information for anti-fascist groups, says [..] homosexuality is “extremely prevalent” in the upper echelons of the British far right, and at one stage in the 1980s nearly half of the movement’s organisers were gay.

beatroot said...

I remember that 1980s ‘scandal’ in the National Front’ in Britain. There was also talk of one of the leaders being (whisper it) Jewish. His name was Martin something…anyway, this is one of the reason why members broke away and formed the most prominent of the groupings in the UK these days, the British National Party.

There does seem to be some mutual fascination….but you must remember, Opamp, that the internet poll was a away to mock All Polish Youth and LPR….laughing at someone is a good way to disarm them…..

Anonymous said...

It seems in your article “Beatroot reviewed in Warsaw magazine” you friends at WiK say:

“A sarcastic commentary on the comical antics of Poland’s Chaplinesque government, beatroot writes clearly, concisely, and with plenty of bite. The blog is a great source of information….[and is] updated every other day, is well laid out, and has a vitriolic fanbase, whose comments are often as entertaining as the blog.”

The blog is a great source of dis-information would have been more accurate.

They seem to have failed to mention that your blog was a consistant propaganda forum for the liberal leftists political view point and didn’t represent an unbiased or balanced prospective. Also that your blog was a magnet for anti-Polish rants by people who had some connection to Poland but usually were not ethnic Poles.

Your article on Mr. Bosak certainly meets the best standards of yellow journalism, if you feel his “gay” say so, but this "not quite libel" routine common to the practice of yellow journalism is a bit cowardly.

So don’t you think this type of political attack compromises your view on gay rights? Where you can say I’m for gay rights but in the mean time using the accusation that a person is gay as a political weapon against someone when you do not agree with their politics.

Typical of the average European leftist walking both sides of the street and getting nowhere!

Keep one thing in mind you will never see the day that your point of view will ever get near elected office in Poland.

beatroot said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
beatroot said...

Jan, I rather think you are taking what was a very light hearted post a little too seriously....

As for so called ‘yellow journalism’… and ‘disinformation’ then can you point to anything in that post which is factually incorrect?

Bosak is quoted as saying that violence is necessary to protest this sort of ‘abnormality’…and you seem to think that it is OK that this person is an elected member of parliament. I do not. Anyone who says that kind of thing – and he is not alone in LPR making that kind of remark – then he is no better than a thug.

And what is this about ‘libeling him’’? I did not suggest he was gay. That was not the point of the post.

It is quite common for gay people to laugh at those who hate them. They have been doing it for ions. It is a way they cope with it. The poll where gays vote for the hornyist ‘homophobe’ was a joke and not, like my post, meant to be taken seriously.

And even if I did think he was gay, I would not necessarily support ‘outing’ him. As I have argued before about the prime minister, I think cheap jibes at his alleged sexuality are simply that – cheap. There are much better ways of fighting bigotry than that.

Anonymous said...

There is one thing I have to admit about Mr. Bosak - he is very intelligent man. although I do not agree with most of his ideas, I do not doubt that he is realy clever. But at this point there is one thing that is completly not understood. How is is possible that such an intelligent person supports LPR and is a leader of nationalists. ??????


Anonymous said...

I wouldn't be so sure if he's so intelligent... He has just learned the LPR's gibberish talking, that's all.

Anonymous said...

opamp: "The fascination of gay people with far-right ideology is a known fact."

Just like we all know that communism was a Jewish conspiracy, I suppose.

It would suit you to provide better back-up for such sweeping statements than just a link to a post full of other unproved, unverifiable or highly debatable sweeping statements.


With the exception of Jean-Marie Le Pen, all the most high-profile fascists in Europe in the past thirty years have been gay.

All of them, no less. Like "France’s leading post-war fascist Edouard Pfieffer" (who was pre-war, not exactly well-known or leading, and called Pfeiffer).

Dutch fascist Pim Fortuyn ran on blatantly racist anti-immigrant platform...

You could call Pim Fortuyn a lot of things, but 'fascist' and even 'racist' are definitely not among them. The author has no idea what he is talking about.

The famous pass of Thermopylae, for example was held by 300 soldiers – who consisted of 150 gay couples.

Wow. And how exactly do we know that?

PS: Is it just me, or do others have continuous problems posting comments using "Google/Blogger" or "Other" identities as well? Sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn't. It's been like this for months.

beatroot said...

Sorry about the problems signing in. I used to have the same problem with blogs that were using old blogger. But not now.

And of course the geberalizations you mention are ludicrous. They suggest that a if virtually all fascists are gay then fascism has something to do with homosexuality - which is not a political argument at all.

It is starnge that both Opamp and jannovak, though not LPR supporters seem to get very touchy about this sunject.

They also both completly misunderstand what my post was about. The post was about how few people you need to vote for you to get into the Polish parliament, if you are at the bottom of the voting list.

But oh well, I will try and be VERY CLEAR WHEN I DO A SIMILAR POST IN THE FUTURE......

Anonymous said...

The famous pass of Thermopylae, for example was held by 300 soldiers – who consisted of 150 gay couples.

Wow. And how exactly do we know that?

Huh... Their own sources?
See here

They suggest that a if virtually all fascists are gay

This is an overreaching interpretation of my post. I have only claimed a presence of homosexuals within the far right groups, without discussing numbers; this mere presence is relevant here, because one would logically think that gays find such groups repulsive.

Alleging a link between gayness and fascism is waaay overreaching.

beatroot said...

Your post insluded links that seem to include such nonsense, Opamp....

Anonymous said...

opamp: Huh... Their own sources?

Well, yes, like Plutarch, four centuries afterwards.

From what I read, it seems very unlikely that the Spartans would have had such units in their army at Thermopylae, as the posting claims. But it's a good story of course.

Even when I am not nitpicking, however, I still have methodological issues with equating eromenoi, or anything similar, with homosexual lovers in the modern sense. The concept just did not exist as such until much more recently, and you cannot project modern concepts one-on-one on the past.

That said, I'm not sure Christianity isn't a homosexual conspiracy. This Jesus with his twelve "disciples" who called him Master. This Church with its all male power structure and its unmarried priests, and monks living together separately from the nuns. Altar boys...

opamp: Alleging a link between gayness and fascism is waaay overreaching.

OK. Somehow "The fascination of gay people with far-right ideology is a known fact" did seem pretty clear, though, as a statement. would logically think that gays find such groups repulsive.

Well, yes. But the Nazi party had Jewish supporters too, at first, and ordinary heterosexual German goyim. The point is, Jews and gays are human like everybody else, and equally prone to failing to see the big picture until it is too late, for their particular group (which may well be after it has been too late for someone else's group).

PS: On posting comments - it does seem to depend on the computer and network I am using. Must be the combination then.

Anonymous said...

jannovak57 said...
your blog was a magnet for anti-Polish rants by people who had some connection to Poland but usually were not ethnic Poles.

Some connection to Poland? Most of us live here and many of us would be Polish citizens if we filled in the paperwork. I certainly would be. But according to you somehow you have the right to comment on Poland because of an accident of birth and I as somebody who actually chooses to live in Poland have no right to comment on Poland. Is that what you refer to as Polish pride?

Anonymous said...

This Church with its all male power structure and its unmarried priests, and monks living together separately from the nuns.

Again, the prevalence of homosexuals within the Church is a known fact (*cough* sex scandals *cough*). One can even make a defendable argument that its gender structure attracts homosexuals.

But again, claiming it to be a homosexual conspiracy is unbased and overreaching.

Anonymous said...

Harry said... “the right to comment on Poland because of an accident of birth and I as somebody who actually chooses to live in Poland have no right”

Some stuff does come across as anti-Polish rants!

I don’t oppose anyone’s right to comment here, however I stand by the notion that the dynamics our discussions are greatly effect by the absence of ethnic Poles on this blog. If someone was interested in political affairs and followed this blog they would get a skewed picture if they failed to realize that this was a foreign lense looking into Polish society and commenting from that prospective. I am not suggesting that if this blog were populated by Poles it would be 180 degrees different in prospective but it would be different.

For as little as it serves this purpose it is an interesting place to see how Polish society and Poles are viewed by outsiders, it would certainly be educational for Poles to see how others view them.

Yes I understand you live in Poland and can qualify for citizenship however cultural assimilation is only partial.

beatroot said...

Jan - you and Opamp, and many others that come here are ethnic Poles. In fact all sorts of ehtnic POles, with all sorts of opinions add to my view - which is a personal one, and I have never pretended it isn't.

As someone said once - if you take my argumwents and add the comments then you get an idea of the variety of opinions there are about Poland.

What else could you want for a himble blog?

Anonymous said...

Yeah, I can demonstrate my Polish ancestry over 300 years back. So what?

Still, this blog is mostly visited by "Enlightened Europeans" who believe that everything east of Rhine is by definition a stinking backwater where polar bears are chasing gays on the streets, and so their mission is bringing us, dark people, a flame of enlightenement.

Which is, of course, what makes this blog fun.

beatroot said...

You are one of the reasons this blog is fun, actually.

You have this point of view that infuriates 'liberals' but you do it in an articulate way – like JanNovak – although I know you and him disagree on certain things…like economics, I guess.

You are not one of these freaks who scream gibberish at me..(actually most of those are not POlish either).

The thing is: this blog is written in English. It is going to attract people from outside Poland ( at least I hope so!) so we are going to get a western European/US response.

Not my fault. It’s your job to make sure they don’t get the impression that what I wrote in any way ‘represents’ Poland. Because it really isn’t meant to.

Anonymous said...; You saved my day again.

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