Monday, March 10, 2008

Polish PM – ‘Are you pleased to see me...


...or is that an anti-missile system in your pocket?' (photo: Gazeta.pl)

George W. Bush met Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk at the Whitehouse today and...well...nothing happened that we did not know already.

The US will come up with a package for butching up the Polish armed forces to such a degree that the Polish government can claim they ‘really are protecting Polish security.’

Oh, and as Bush said, there will still be no visa waiver program for Poland.

So was it worth the trip by PM Tusk? He did try to reduce costs: he travelled to see Uncle Sam not in the Polish version of ‘Air Force One’...but on a scheduled Polish LOT airline to New York. Shame then that there was a hoax bomb threat that prevented the aircraft from touching down for nearly an hour.

If I was Tusk, I’d revise my travel plans.

28 comments:

heat_seeker said...

If it wasn't for you BR, I wouldn't even know. It's almost 4pm PST and so far I have not seen one headline about the visit. LA Times, HufPo, AP, Reuters.. nothing. There is plenty however, about Gov. Spitzer banging a $5.5K/hr hooker and speculations that "tiny Palau skeletons suggest "hobbits" were dwarfs".. ??? Thanks - Keep up good work!

geez said...

The meeting was on Yahoo since the late morning but certainly Spitzer's spritzer proved to be the bigger bang.

Poland ain't gonna git nuthin but the missile base and a lot of knocked up Polish women courtesy of the US military.

And I gotta pay for it with my tax dollars. I'd rather the money go to politician's whores.

Damien Moran said...

Check out the open letter to Tusk sent by US Peace groups and academics:
Open letter to Tusk

BR - Will we see ya in Slupsk on March 29th for demo.?

jannowak57 said...

Evidently Mr. Tusk’s visit to the White House has gone unnoticed by the US media, the prime time news broadcasts of CBS and NBC didn’t mention a word. That’s good news, as public attention would cause an additional level of difficulty. It appears the problem has been the US military who has had difficulty with the 20 billion dollar shopping list handed to them by the Polish negotiators, this caused the talks to come to an impasse, but the State Department has taken over the negotiations. With the White House and State Department now directly involved it is likely that they will comply with some portion of the request.

Tusk’s problem lies with the fact, his team isn’t hiding that their seeking 20 billion which means he has to get a deal that is substantively close to the 20 billion dollars or he will be seen as failing to get adequate compensation for the missiles.

The official word from the White House is that Poland will get help to modernize their military however that could mean getting a free box of rifle ammunition, time will tell.

Tusk is in a difficult position as there will be repercussions if he drops the deal due to the Americans being stingy or accepts it with an inferior aid package. The democrats coming to power in the next election could render all of this as pointless however I somehow feel they will not touch the program.

michael farris said...

Where's the Polish version of the letter to Tusk?

Dorota said...

MF - It's coming. We're under-resourced, over-worked, underpaid (well, actually, get no pay at all), etc. I'll post link here when it's complete.

geez said...

Actually, it's been all over the news, just not the sensation of Spitzer's spritzer:

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/world/main202.shtml

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23554655/

Twenty billion dollars?

Here's what you got... horseshit:

(MSNBC) "But despite Mr. Bush's reassurance, Tusk made clear that he will be waiting to see a more concrete offer from the United States. Mr. Bush promised he would offer specifics "before my watch is over" in January. "

jannowak57 said...

If the US wants the missiles placed in Poland it now understands the price tag, if they feel it’s too much then find some one else to host the missiles. Last I checked we have diplomatic ties with North Korea and Iran, as well as good/normal relations with both.

The experience of dealing with the US previously has matured the Polish attitude when dealing with them. Much had been promised but the promises didn’t fully translate into benefits. Lesson learned get it in writing.

This puts to the test the level of commitment the US has to Polish security, better to find out now where we stand. This administration and the subsequent administration will have a lot of hoops to jump through to get this of the ground.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Renegade Eye said...

The missiles are aimed at Russia or Iran? I wonder.

Spitzer was definetly overcharged for the services provided.

jannowak57 said...

Renegade Eye said: “The missiles are aimed at Russia or Iran? I wonder.”

Wonder no more, they are not aimed at a country but rather an incoming missile from any source. This defensive system is a pacifists dream, no people get killed when it used but the reverse happens if it’s not used.

Renegade Eye said: “Spitzer was definitely overcharged for the services provided.”

I understand he is going to be impeached if he doesn’t resign, good because I don’t want this guy working on the state budget if this is some indication of how he manages money. Any half-wit can organize the same for free. It was $ 5000.00 plus her expenses. Perhaps I just don’t grasp how far the American dollar has fallen.

geez said...

Spritzer's a multimillionaire.n Prolly a billionaire. If some guy making about $50,000 a year was so inclined and the lady charged him sliding scale based on relative net worth, he'd have had to fork up about 5 bucks for the same deal.

makalu said...

For 20 billion, they'll surely take the accursed missiles. There must be a bottom line here. But if it's just the price which is the sticking point then surely they've proven themselves to be whores of the first order just like the one who got $4500 for 40 minutes of work. With Spitzer it definitely was work.

geez said...

Comparitive perspective: About one billion dollars is spent per month by the US to occupy Iraq.

The deal in Poland ain't gonna happen unless the Poles whore themselves out for a major, major discount that comes nowhere close to twenty billion.

T'was politically naive ever to think otherwise.

geez said...

57, where did you get that $20 billion figure? Is it real?

Damien Moran said...

Mich. Farris,

Here is the letter in Polish:
List profesorów i organizacji pokojowych w USA do Donalda Tuska
http://www.tarcza.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=105&Itemid=44

varus said...

I said saw in Warsaw Voice how another F-16 has had problems:

http://www.warsawvoice.pl/newsX.php/5846/6166913768

Maybe Poland should look at another country for its arms, one that has a more reliable track record :-)

jannowak57 said...

Geez

These three news articles sited the amount of the aid package:

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hzjJP0iVtO_IbHxVyFAPegKvzWnw

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gbx3H7EfhmrT1K6iY9ChGJB_mRKQ

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-02/27/content_7674640.htm

Most articles do not site a value for the aid package but two Patriot missile batteries would cost about 2 billion after all was said and done, the military identifies 17 areas needing upgrade in addition to this. There is no official number from the polish government. Is it real, unless you were privy to the request list and priced it out, it would be hard to tell.

jannowak57 said...

Varus said: “look at another country for its arms, one that has a more reliable”

As it stands the US is by far the most technologically advanced arm seller in the world and stands in many cases at least two decades ahead in it’s technology with respect to it’s competitors western and eastern.

The F-16 is a tried and tested design but even a Mercedes needs to see a repair shop now and then. This model was a conservative choice because approximately 4200 have been produced for 17 different air forces. Poland currently has the most advanced model.

Now if you don’t like the Mercedes we can look at the Lada:

Algeria plans to return to Russia the 15 MiG fighter jets it bought in 2006 and 2007 because of shoddy construction.

In all cases of a confrontation between Russian/Soviet and American aircraft designs the result is a clear outcome, the US made aircraft win. Never has an air force equipped with Russian/ Soviet equipment gain air superiority over one equipped with American aircraft.

geez said...

Thanks for the citations, 57. The first article was clear enough and noted the $20 billion.

And that is in addition to whatever $$$ we will be paying in our tax dollars for the US missile bases which will no doubt far exceed that $20 billion.

And a billion a month to occupy Iraq.

If the Dems don't pick this up as a major campaign issue, they're daft.

scrotum scratcher said...

The US cost of the war in Iraq is now $12 billion a month.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=4418698

Still, most Americans will frown on the idea of $20 billion to arm Poland beyond the US missile base.

Anonymous said...

For goodness sake Donald,please do us all a favour and tell George where to stick his missiles!He will be gone soon and you can then suck up to Hillary or Obama instead.

John,Poznan

jannowak57 said...

scrotum scratcher said..” most Americans will frown on the idea of $20 billion to arm Poland”

U.S. Financial Aid To Israel:
Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid
Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)
Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200 ………..(as of 2007 this figure has grown wildly)

For a comprehensive break down see:
http://www.washington-report.org/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm

Do you really think Poland’s tiny aid package spread over a number of years is going to get any attention?

Anonymous said...” to stick his missiles”

That’s ok; just send the military aid package. Hillary and Obama will be just fine, don’t think they can stop the military aid packages.

geez said...

You forget, 57, that Poland and Poles are commonly viewed as a joke, not in terms of a people or nation. And certainly not even inhabiting the same universe as the Jews and Israel.

And last I read, Tusk wasn't even prepared enough to have a wish list of weaponry or whatever to be funded. Pretty pathetic, I'd say. Now it will have to be worked out before Bush leaves office. Guess what? He has the attention span of a four year old.

jannowak57 said...

The point I’m trying to make by illustrating what Israel gets is that Poland’s request is small potatoes in the big picture. There is a list of countries that get American military aid in addition to Israel; Poland would not feature very prominently. The amount the US will agree to will be a function of how much the US administration wants the missiles there. Tusk’s approach is correct on many levels; it is a litmus test for America’s commitment to Polish security and the validity of Poland’s Atlantist focus. If this falls through then it will require a complete re-appraisal of the countries security policies.

Damien Moran said...

Interesting article:
Anarchists and the the Redzikowo base

Anonymous said...

Does the word Anarchy tranform into the word Anarchism?

Misspelled Banner Dooms Anti-Capitalist Protest

Anarchists in Detroit this week are pointing fingers at each other after an embarrassing gaffe at last week's anti-capitalist protest. A banner which led the black bloc included a misspelled word, which led other activists to denounce the bloc as "illiterate savages." Many of the police dropped their riot gear in laughter as the bloc marched by. The banner was supposed to have read "Revolutionary Anti-Capitalist Bloc," but one of the banner makers had painted an "o" instead of a "u" in 'Revolutionary." Several of the more liberal activists later blamed the poor turnout for the rally on the misspelling.

Q: How many anarchists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: None, the light bulb must change itself. All anarchists can do is help its process of self-change.

Q: How many anarcho-primitivists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Why should they change it -- they deliberately broke the thing in the first place as part of their attempt to destroy the oppressive, technological mega-machine we live under.

Damien Moran said...

Is that 'transform' or 'tranform'?

wow anon., your knowledge of anarchism is so awesome. Pity you couldn't admit that you robbed your info. about the Detroit demo. from an anarchist site.

Good thing about us is that we can actually pull the piss out of ourselves too.

The demo. on March 29th at Redzikowo will be the first at the site. All people are invited to attend and participate and speak on an open mike during the public debate in Slupsk.

So come out of the web closet on Marhc 29th, introduce yourself to me, and let's have a real talk rather than web anonymity on your part.

Damien Moran said...

Glos Pomorza picking up news on our demo. March 29th in Slupsk and Redzikowo.

Should be a good show down amongst ordinary members of the public for and against the project - an open, democratic debate which should be held in all regions of Poland. The mainstream media coverage to date seriously lacks any balance as regards arguments against the 'shield'.