Tuesday, May 30, 2006

Poles on blood and honour blacklist


Krakow’s students, feminists, gays and academics have been put on the internet “black list” of fascist organization “Blood and Honour”.

By Robert Kusek at Radio Polonia

Blood and Honour is an international fascist organization which collects and keeps information on people who are well known for their leftist and anarchist sympathies. The founders of the organization trace the members of anti-racist and left-wing groups all over the world and, subsequently, put the names of their “enemies” with all the data – including photos, telephone numbers and addresses – on their internet lists called Redwatch.

But this is the first time the fascists from “Blood and Honour” have drawn up a list of so many people from a single Polish city – namely, from Krakow.

On their website, they have displayed the photographs and personal details of over 20 individuals – most of them living, studying and working in Krakow. The list includes the academics from the Jagiellonian University, students of the city’s colleges and members of Krakow’s feminist and gay organizations.

Redwatch has also published a number of photos which show ordinary people who participated in Krakow’s March of Tolerance in April 2006. The website encourages everyone to assault those people physically and gives all the details by which the human rights’ activists can be recognized – including the clothes they wear and the pubs and cafes they usually go to.

Several of the people have already lodged complaints with the public prosecution office against the website. They also hope to be protected by the police – especially after it turned out that last week one of the leftists activists from the Warsaw list of Redwatch was attacked and stabbed with a knife.

Robert Kusek, Krakow

Polish Foreign Ministry seeks US help to close down Blood and Honor website

The Polish Foreign Ministry has addressed a note to the U.S. authorities, asking for help to closedown a nationalist website, the government said on Sunday.

Poland's government spokesman Konrad Ciesiolkiewicz said the site signed by a self-claimed group of Blood and Honor can be found on the American server and that the Polish services cannot erase it...more

More?
Gay visibility inspires international supremacist attacks, Washington blade, May 16

69 comments:

Romerican said...

Disturbing.

I wonder how this plays out in the long term. Differing groups gathering information on their perceived enemies. After 'inciteful' sites are reduced through prosecution, much larger and generalist data banks appear on the scene to catalogue everyone with everyone able to leave tags. Third party hate sites continue in the darknet.

You wake up 65 years old. Go outside for a walk. Some 16 year old kid shoots you dead for watching a parade 37 years ago.

sonia said...

How could I get on that list? Could I just e-mail Blood and Honour, tell them I am a lesbian and they will put me on their list ?

Truth be told, I am more afraid of Muslim fanatics than of those bozos. They are all talk, no action. They are the true degenerates of the Western civilisation, trying to bully gays and lesbians, but shitting in their pants at the sight of Muslim fundamentalists...

Urbane George said...

Junior minister Blizniuk has responded to the stabbing of a Maciej D., whose name appeared on Blood and "Honour's" list. He said: "The government believes that the convictions and beliefs of Mr. D as a cause for his attempted murder cannot be tolerated." He also said: "Obviously, such things will happen. If there were no fascist or racist attacks the police and other law enforcement organs would not be necessary."

Aaron Fowles said...

At least these guys aren't too bright. Their list of Poznan reds (http://redwatch.info/sites/poznan.htm) was taken right off of indymedia.pl (http://pl.indymedia.org/pl/2005/11/16997.shtml)

I doubt there is much to fear from these guys. But maybe we'll see on the 10th...

beatroot said...

Sonia, you might be more scared of muslim bozos but it all depends where you live. If you live in Baghdad or Kabul then, yes, it would be more rational to be scared of them than skinheads.

But if you live in Warsaw, Krakow then unless you are very very unlucky, islamo-nutters are not a threat at all.

But skinheads are.

George and Aron, good work.

As far as the 19 June goes...I was there same time last year and the cops were brilliant!!! Not like in Poznan at all. They clearly recognised that the trouble was going to come from the All-Polish Youth and let them have it. There was a bit of argy-bargy but nothing serious.

David Broder said...

Interesting blog... not a lot of Polish news circulating on the British left.

What party/group are you a member of?

beatroot said...

Welcome Mr Broder.

I joined the Labour Party when I was 16, left it at the arrival of New Labour. Since the left/right thing collapsed and has become meaningless I do not consider myself left any longer. Looking for a new politics.

not a lot of Polish news circulating on the British left.

That's because what's left of the Brtish 'left' are and always have been embarrassed by Poland. The working class here were the ones that got rid of communism, after all.

sonia said...

That's because what's left of the Brtish 'left' are and always have been embarrassed by Poland. The working class here were the ones that got rid of communism, after all

And that thing started early, in 1920, when leftist British dockers refused to send arms to Poland that was invaded by the Red Army. Polish Communists paid them in kind in the 1980's when Jaruzelski send coal to England during Scargill's strikes, helping Thatcher to defeat the British labor movement...

it all depends where you live

True only for Poland (Polish Muslim Tatars are quite moderate), but definitely not for Western Europe, or Russia, or Kosovo...

roman said...

About two months ago when the "prophet cartoons" were sent around the world on Blogger, the Pakistan government had no problem shutting it down completely. After things cooled down, they allowed a re-activation of the site some weeks later.
"Polish Foreign Ministry seeks US help to close down Blood and Honor website"
Since this site is technically spewing illegal content, I find it difficult to believe that it cannot be shut down or otherwise censored without "begging" the country where the servers are located for cooperation. I am very suspicious of the Polish government's claim of being technologically impotent in this situation.
I don't personally like censorship of any kind but if content is potentially harmful and is used as a tool to incite attacks such as on the activist from Warsaw, it is the rare occasion to exercise the censorship option.

beatroot said...

Sonia: to say that this is only the case for Poland is dilusional. In western Europe and the United States the chances of being involved in one of the almost random bombings is highly highly highly unlikely. We have more chance as individuals of getting hit by lightening twice on the same day.

Not so in countries that have been invaded by the Bushies and the Blairs.

You are doing the jihandists - and repressive western governments - job for them with your over the top fear.

Roman: Since this site is technically spewing illegal content, I find it difficult to believe that it cannot be shut down or otherwise censored.

But is this site technically illegal? Is it presenting a 'clear and present danger' of incitement to actual physical harm of inviduakls? I think not.

Banning rubbish like the redwatch and blood and honor sites only encourages those psychos' special pleading that 'whites are repressed' blah blah blah. We should not be banning sites like these but exposing them for what they are...the ramblings of nutters.

sonia said...

Beatroot,

In western Europe... is highly highly highly unlikely

Tell that to Theo Van Gogh, Salman Rushdie, Hirshi Ali, and all those Danish cartoonists...

You are doing the jihandists - and repressive western governments - job for them with your over the top fear

Well, by the same token, YOU are doing the racist white suprematists - and manipulative leftist demagogues - job for them with your over the top fear...

Gosh, living in Poland sure makes you cranky. No more Nazi death camps visits for you. You should relax on a tropical island for a while... No white suprematists there...

beatroot said...

The Tell that to Theo Van Gogh, Salman Rushdie, Hirshi Ali, and all those Danish cartoonists... type 'argument' is a cheap one...they were the very unlucky ones.

Are you calling me a 'manipulative leftist demagogues' Ms. Sonia?

Mehmet said...

Sonia, my post is based on your posts.
You insult Muslims with your posts. Please don't comment anything that YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY UNAWARE OF IT. I am a Turkish Muslim and I live in Turkey. I never insult other people's religions and beliefs. Because this is not a good thing and Muslims never insult other people's religions. You tell that you fear from Muslims and one day come to Turkey, i will show you how nice people Muslims are.

beatroot said...

Turkey is one of the most beautiful countries I have ever been in, Mehmet, and I apologise for slightly hysterical westerners who seem to think that you are all a bunch of nutters.

Mehmet said...

Dear Beatroot, I just want to say that not all of the Muslims are same. Some of them are real fanatic but fanaticism and killing people is never welcomed by Muslims, because we know that killing a human is not different from killing all the humans in the world. I respect all other people and it's not important what belief they have. We, Turkish people, are Muslims, but that doesn't mean we are dangerous and terrorist. I am very sad about that Muslim people are recognised as terrorist because of individual events(for example 11 September, attack on Twin Towers).

beatroot said...

I believe you, Mehmet.

Unfortunatly, there are a lot of people in the west who have developed Islamophobia...which is very sad and is the result of some very weird media reporting and some confused policies by our wonderful politicians.

But I am not one of those, Mehmet. I think your societies do have lots of problems but I trust you to sort them out by yourselves. You do not need our help to do that.

Turkey for the EU! Now!!!

sonia said...

Beatroot,

Are you calling me a 'manipulative leftist demagogues' Ms. Sonia?

Not unless you call me a 'repressive western government'... I simply replaced those words in your own sentence...

Mehmet,

You insult Muslims with your posts

Only Muslims ???? What specifically is so insulting to you ? Nudity, lesbianism, Danish cartoons, my praise of Sistani here, my criticism of Sistani here and here, my opposition to the war with Iran, my support for war against Saddam Hussein, my criticism (mixed with some admiration) for the President of Iran, my condemnation of Islamophobia here or maybe my support for Hirsi Ali
???

I never insult other people's religions and beliefs

Challenging other people's beliefs is MY religion...

You tell that you fear from Muslims

I don't fear Muslims. I fear those Muslim fanatics who KILL people who dare to criticize them...

Anonymous said...

An interesting part of this thread has been the mention of the British left. Why don't they pay attention to what the extreme right are up to in Poland? Why is it, for example, that the leader of the Socialists in the European Parliament who happens to be German can make a blistering attack on the League of Polish families while British Socialists and sit back and say nothing? You would think that with UKIP being in the same group as the League of Polish families, British leftists (and indeed centrists) would have scored an in an open goal recently.

John

Mehmet said...

Sonya, you should not challenge other people's religion without any knowledge about them. I can obviously see you know nothing about Islam. I can show a lot of examples. First Israeli soldiers killed a 12 years old Palestinian girl on borders and do you know why? They thought she was a terrorist and she was carrying bombs. That was not true because after the girl has been killed, they investigated her and there was no bomb. A little girl. Can you expect how much she feared before getting killed? No you can't. The Jewish soldiers killed that girl so we can say that all Jewish are terrorists. And another example, American forces are killing innocent civilians in Iraq every day. USA attacked Iraq because of Iraq's chemical weapons and there is still no chemical or nuclear weapon found. I am sure there are lots of American soldiers in USA army and they are killing innocents, so we can say that all Christians are terrorists. I can give you a lot of example related to the religions' of Jewish and Christians and more. Turkey is a proud country because of refusing help USA in Iraq war with letting US troops into Iraq from North Iraq by using Turkish lands. Democracy acnnot be brought with wars and killing innocents. A Muslim never kills an innocent person. You should not fear any Muslims.

sonia said...

Mehmet,

Don't change the subject. Ahmadinejad knows how to do it. You don't. I asked you what you found offensive and insulting among the posts I wrote, and you have answered by mentioning shootings in Palestine and Iraq, and about Turkey being a pround country. I never praised Israel for shooting little girls, never praised American soldiers for shooting innocent civilians in Iraq and never wrote about Turkey. So what you wrote has nothing to do with me.

beatroot said...

John: You raise a very good point indeed. The British left...I despair of these people and have long since had to not much to do with them.

Poland is off the radar for them, always has been. There was support for Solidarity from the old TUC (but there again, Thatcher gave more vocal support than they did).

And since the fall of communism...nothing. As I said before, they seem embarrassed by a working class that is catholic.

If they - I am thinking of the 'Euston manifesto' group etc - are interested in encouraging the secular left in places like Iraq (and they apparently are) then why are they not doing the same here?

I will be spending a bit of the weekend bombarding these 'radicals' with info about the gay parade next Saturday and make the points you and I are making (I'm gonna start with Harry's Place) and we'll see how fact get.

Thanks John

Mehmet said...

Sonia,
I will write down here what offends me.

Danish cartoons are surely much offend to me. We accept Muhammed and Jesus as big prophets and believe in them. But it's not wise to offend a religion's biggest prophets with those cartoons. In the same way, any offend cartoons to Jesus, the idea is the same and it's much offend to us, Muslims again. We respect all prophets.

Lesbianism is your way, I don't care it, I don't like it, I don't appreciate it, I don't approve it, but it's your life and it's not related to me.

You tell me not to change the subject. I don't. You said me you support war against Iraq. And I tell you democracy is not brought by war. All people in the world know that US army are in Iraq for "another" reasons. It's impossible to bring democracy by killing children. You support war, because you don't fight there, you are not a soldier, you don't get your children killed by another's bombs or weapons. It's all easy far from there. You can't see the true. You know it but you ignore the truth. Every day our soldiers lose their lives and you cannot know this feeling, you know nothing about war, you know nothing about what terrorism is. You just comment easily. You are not actually related to the events. But little children are. I am sure you are happy on your island and don't leave there, the truth hurts outlands. USA tries to give Kurdish people freedom but nobody knows how big destruction this freedom will bring. Don't worry, I know every American politics in Middle East, everyone knows. Noone is too stupid to miss that.

Your criticism against Iran president offend me, because we all know who the real threat in the world is:USA and Israel. ISrael won't doubt to use them all. And Iran president explained that. USA should attack Israel because they have nuclear and chemical weapons too, but they won't. Why? Because Israel will use them against Muslims. On little children, women, old people. I am sure that's great for your Islamophobia. Right? Do not play with Muslims' tensions, everyone will pay for it. Don't feel good on your "little" island, war is not good and be sure of it "everyone" that supports war, (for example, you because you said you support war in Iraq) gets hurt from it even he/she is far from it.

Islamophobia you say. That much offend me. It's like every terrorists in the world are Muslims. Islam is not related to terrorism. Terrorists cannot be Muslims. If they say that they are Muslims, they just lie and they want to offend Islam. Every long bearded men cannot be Muslim and terrorist but you are blind to see that. That's just funny. Americaphobia and Israeliphobia I have. Because they kill and kill and they're not tired of it. I am a honoured man, I never kill innocents, children, women, old people, anyone. USA and Israel have no honour, they are "trying" to stop terrorism in the world, they should start by stopping themselves.

Did I change the subject? No. I told the truth. You are not involved in it, I am. I will join th army because I am 22 and just finished university. It's mandatory to join army when you reached 20 in Turkey, and I don't want to lose my life because of American and Israel politics. I am too young and 7 Turkish soldiers died recently were too young too. What did they do? Defended our lands. You cannot know it how much it hurted me and none of us knows how much it hurted their mothers and families. You are far to these so it's easy to comment. I am close. You comment easily, I cannot. You don't see people lose their lives, I can't sleep out of thinking it. At last, humanity will lose it all to a big destruction...

beatroot said...

Mehmet: I appreciate why the Dannish cartoons could offend you and I think they were meant to offend. That was why they were drawn. But that does not mean that we should ban them. Me, you, Sonia, have no right not to be offended. Being offended won't kill you. You'll get over it.

You are very right to say that you cannot export by democracy via tanks and fighter jets.

But Israel is no threat to you, Mehmet. Leave them alone and they will leave everyone else alone.

sonia said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
sonia said...

Mehmet,

I responded to your comment here .

And this is what awaits you if you don’t join the Turkish Army and defect.(warning: NSFW)

(Had a wrong link in the previous post, had to delete it)

Mehmet said...

Dear Beatroot,

I am not sure if Israel will leave everyone alone if others leave them too. Is it possible that an 11 or 12 years old little girl walking close the border carries bombs? How many of us can think how much she feared and panicked? Why did Israeli soldiers shoot her? And then? She was not carrying any bombs. Just a child. If I can't understand this matter, then no Palestinians will understand it.

I criticize Palestinian suicide attacks on Israeli civilians, those people cannot be Muslims according to me, Islam absolutely prohibited suicides, and any human does that, don't die as a Muslim. Also I don't believe Saddam and Osame Bin Laden are muslims, too. They cannot be. A Muslim never kills an innocent. No. "Some" people don't know who a real Muslim is and that's a serious problem for us.

beatroot said...

Mehmet: I take your point about some of the antics of the Israeli government over the past few years. They are still occupying lots of land that they should not be and this gives rise to instability in Palastinian society.

And I also agree thaT suidice bombers (from the start of the second intafada onwards) has harmed the Palastinian case terribly.

Deshar said...

Beatroot, I have been in Poland for a about a year now as a student and i'm really impressed about the level of tolerance in this society. I am an Muslim and African and i have never for a second felt discriminated or abused in any manner.
Poland is a really beautiful country and people, i have nothing but praise and appreciation for this country.

I have read through the exchanges here and i have a few comments. I much understand the concerns of Sonia and i think her fears about Muslim fanatics are real and genuine. I fear them as much and i will in no way like to associate with them what so ever. Mehmet, why would someone put a bomb on himself to blow up innocent people? This fanatics have no respect for human life whether Muslim or not. As a matter of fact, more Muslims have been victims of terrorist activities than non-Muslims. As muslims we should work at rooting this evil out of our societies instead of being in constant denial.

Sonia, the vast majority of Muslims are a peaceful people and abhore violence, but the Western media erroneously portrays all Muslims as fanatics or potential fanatics. If you should meet and probably associate with ordinary Muslims, you will know that we are just like any other persons, trying to make aliving and to build our lives.

I think when prejudices reign, there is bound to be hatred and conflicts. We are all brothers in humanity. lets try to understand and respect each other. Salaam.

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