Sunday, November 09, 2008

Poland’s president gets confused over Obama phone call?

Has President Lech Kaczynski been telling little fibs about his conversation with president-in-waiting Barack Obama on the anti-missile shield, to be deployed in Poland? And why?

President Kaczynski claims on his presidential web site that he spoke to Obama on Friday and the two agreed to further and deepening cooperation between Warsaw and Washington. "He also said the anti-missile shield project would go ahead," claims the statement on Kaczynski’s web site.

But Obama’s people are saying that he said no such thing. Denis McDonough said in a statement.

"The president-elect had a good conversation with the Polish President and the Polish Prime Minister about the important US-Poland alliance…President Kaczynski raised missile defense but President-elect Obama made no commitment on it. (my emphasis)

"His position is as it was throughout the campaign, that he supports deploying a missile defense system when the technology is proved to be workable."

Oh, dear. Not four days since the historic election of Barack Obama and President Kaczynski appears to have put his little foot in it.

But what could be behind - and let’s be kind about this - this “misunderstanding” between the two men as to what was said in the telephone call? A mistranslation? Maybe.

Maybe not. Kaczynski has been convinced for sometime that Obama’s team and the present government under Donald Tusk have been doing deals behind his back on the anti-missile shield and much more beside. He infamously secretly recorded a conversation earlier this year between himself and Foreign Secretary Radek Sikorski, where insults flew and tantrums were...tantrumed.

The Dziennik daily claimed that the president quizzed Sikorski on whether he knows the American Democrat Ron Asmus, as he suspected that Sikorski had made a secret pact with the Democrats, on a recent visit to Washington, that the deal on the anti-missile shield will be signed with them after the elections in November, thereby enabling Tusk and Obama to claim all the credit. President Kaczynski wants to emphasise that he and his twin brother Jaroslaw, were the authors of the agreement and not Sikorski or Tusk.

So could this suspicion by the president extend to - let’s be kind, again - thinking that he heard Obama (or the translator) say that the missile shield deal would go ahead as planned, when, in fact, the president-elect had, in fact, declined to comment?

It has been reported that EU officials and government heads of the 27 nation bloc are confused over the mixed signals coming out of Warsaw as regards Poland’s foreign policy. Just who is in control of the agenda, they wonder, Kaczynski or Tusk? Well, that confusion has now crept across the Atlantic?

Whatever - you can bet your bottom dollar that the Obama team are now deciding that, in the future, they will deal with Tusk and Sikorski on this matter, and not the President of Poland, who seems to have a hearing dysfunction on matters of national defence.


Brad Zimmerman said...

"But Osama’s people are saying..."

...Whose people?

beatroot said...

Denis McDonough

Anonymous said...

Is it true that Kaczynski invited Obama over to Poland to try his specialty chitterling pierogi recipe? Is this a common Polish dish, or was this Kaczynski's attempt to be accommodating?
Are the Poles actually considering this so-called Missile defense system a GOOD thing? If the Russians invade Poland over this, do they actually think the American's will send troops to defend them?

Anonymous said...

Dude, the okra pierogi in Warsaw are to die for!

Anonymous said...

But the pierog flaczki to which I assume you are referring are the best!

Anonymous said...

And here's the recipe for the filling:

5 lbs. chittlins
1 soup bone
1 onion, chopped
1 stalk celery
1 sprig parsley
1 sliced carrot
1 Tabl. flour
1 Tabl. butter
1/2 tsp. marjoram
1 tsp. ground ginger
salt & pepper

If you cannot buy already cooked chittlins then be sure to buy tripe that is clean and white. Cover the scraped and cleaned chittlins with cold water and bring to boiling point. Pour off this water and cover the chittlins with fresh water. Cook until tender, 3 to 4 hours. Let stand in this water until the next day. Pour off water. If you buy the cooked chittlins, you will be saved all this work.

cook the soup bone in about 2 qts. water with the onion, celery, parsley and carrot for 1 hour. Cut the cooked chittlins into strips about 3 inches long, 1/2 inch wide. Add to the soup bone and vegetables. Cook together for about 4 hrs. or until the chittlins are is tender.

If you can't find chittlins, use tripe. Hmmmnnnnnmmm good.

Dying said...

Check your spelling sir :)
"But Osama’s people are saying that he said no such thing. Denis McDonough said in a statement."


beatroot said...


beatroot said...

latest is here

Anonymous said...

No missiles or bases for you!

jannowak57 said...

The US has a long history of treachery and betrayal when it comes to Poland so no one should express any surprise by this situation. You can’t have great expectations from those who sold out your country for a glass of vodka. Also no one should draw any conclusions from this other than Obama wanted to keep his options open and therefore was non-committal. Soon there will be a new secretary of state and the new policy directions will become clear.

If indeed the US has betrayed Poland and what remains for Poland is to rely on it EU partners who are less then worthless then it would make sense to come to terms with Russia directly. In general terms it would mean voluntarily agreeing to a form of “Finlandization” along with immediate withdrawal from Afghanistan as there would no longer be any national interest in remaining there.

beatroot said...

a) how would not having these daft missiles be a betrayal of Poland? That's just absurd.

b) Obama has never hidden the fact that he thinks the technology for these missiles is dodgy - which it is - and that he probably thinks they are a waste of money. Why kaczynski decided he said different is the issue here. Perhaps it was a mistranslation or that he heard what he wanted to hear.

Either way - as Sikorski said - Obama will think twice before picking up the phone and giving Lech a call.

But don;t sidetrack yourself with this betrayal nonsense...

Anonymous said...

Well, I never thought I'd see the day when 57 would be agreeing with Rosie (minus all the communism shit).

Anonymous said...

No missile shield also means no Patriot missile batteries and no direct US security guarantee or aid in military modernization. Put this all together the US has become an unreliable partner in the geo-strategic game. Therefore Poland’s stands without allies or allies that have credibility; as a consequence it may become necessary to completely rethink foreign policy. Poland cannot put itself in a similar position to the one it found itself in during 1939. If indeed Poland gets knifed by the US again which would turn out to be the complete collapse of the countries foreign policy direction. The prospect of a form of “Finlandization” would be an alternative possibility. There exists nothing sacred about remaining in Nato given that the agreement in terms of Poland was fraudulent from the start.

beatroot said...

No missile shield also means no Patriot missile batteries and no direct US security guarantee..

Nonsense. Poland is part of Nato. All member countries have automatic guarantees.

Therefore Poland’s stands without allies or allies that have credibility;

Nonsense - Poland is a member of nato...etc...

Poland cannot put itself in a similar position to the one it found itself in during 1939.

Nonsense - Nato in the 2000s is not Europe 1939...

If indeed Poland gets knifed by the US again

Nonsense - not getting anti-missile system is not a prerequisit of being defended by the mutual defence organisation that is NATO.

I think you are a little confused about what these anti-missile missiles are for. there are not there to just protect Poland...but from fantasy rogue states firing missiles at western Europe.

Anonymous said...

There is no confusion about the missiles; these are unproven prototype missiles that are likely to work only in the most ideal situations and maybe not even then. They mean nothing to us, but what comes with them has significance such as the Patriot Missiles, a direct security guarantee, a physical American presence and assistance with modernization of the Polish military.

As far as Nato goes and our EU allies they are little more than a joke. Most of these bastards are camping out in a non-combat area of Afghanistan with instructions from their governments not to get into combat. You may have not noticed but there exists no Nato infrastructure or troops stationed in Poland. That’s because while signing the Nato treaty with us, our partners made a deal with the Russians not to station troops or infrastructure in Poland. In other words a phoney commitment for collective defence is the basis of Polish national security. What makes it even makes it worst is that Nato membership has even weaken Poland’s ability for self defence by demanding capabilities which are of little use in local conflicts.

beatroot said...

but what comes with them has significance such as the Patriot Missiles,

So before you think that your security is safe you must have American troops, with American missiles on your soil?

Since when did nations need Us troops in their territory before they felt safe?

These are paranoid fantasy...not foreign policy.

Russia is not going to attack Poland. You do not need partiot missiles.

Anonymous said...

Great debate guys.

Anonymous said...

Beatroot said: “Russia is not going to attack Poland”

Check a Polish history book, we have over a thousand years of experience with them your assertion in the light of our shared history with the Russian people has no basis. The Russia of today is a belligerent neighbour driven by nationalism and imperialist aspirations.

Beatroot said: “You do not need partiot missiles”

I think most defence experts in Poland disagree with you including the senior levels of the military. Do you except any expenditure or effort to provide a meaning national defence for Poland as legitimate? Are you suggesting unilateral disarmament?

Beatroot said: “Since when did nations need Us troops in their territory before they felt safe”

Europe for most part of the last century particularly Germany, Saudi Arabia, South Korea just to name a few.

We are about to enter a new era of US foreign policy, in the past the Soviets gave a new president at least five months to shape a foreign policy and give some indications of the direction of things to come before they responded. Our Russian friends did not let 24 hours elapse before they threw down the gauntlet, Biden was correct in saying that the new President would be tested very early in the game. If we get a re-run of Jimmy Carter it won’t be good for Poland.

beatroot said...

Europe for most part of the last century particularly Germany, Saudi Arabia, South Korea

The above countries and how the troops there came about are very different from Poland.

West Germany and South korea were cold war creations...the cold war is over and now the US wants to take the troops out of germany.

And Saudi Srabia? Client state, anyone?

Poland and the post-cold war world is nothing like that and a troops are simply not necessary. How many countries in nato? How many have US troops in them?

And this stuff about "check a history book..." That is just illogical argument.

Well, maybe you would like to check out a British history book. Does that mean France is going to try and invade England? Just because something happened before does not mean it will again. and the world has changed and this is a point you don;t seem to grasp at all.

Anonymous said...

Myabe 57 was happy with the prospect of being a client state of the US given the alternatives/

Anonymous said...

I asked two questions , you did not respond.

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