Roman wants any new EU Constitution (yawn) to include a ban on abortion and rights for homosexuals.
Education and deputy prime minister Giertych has been justifying what he said in Germany yesterday: legal abortion is a ‘form of barbarianism’, and homosexuals threatened the future of European civilization as we know it.
‘The propaganda of homosexuality is reaching ever younger children." [Giertych said in the speech released to the Polish media Friday].
"In some countries it is even forbidden for children in hospital to talk or read about mommy and daddy, because this allegedly violates minority rights. Let's free ourselves of this unwise political correctness."
"If we will not use all our power to strengthen the family, then as a continent there is not future for us. We will be a continent settled by representatives of the Islamic world who care for the family."
Of course, the image of gays ushering in the European Islamic Caliph is a delicious one and should be cherished by us all.
And it follows nicely on from the recent bizarre ramblings of his father, Maciej, whose nasty little pamphlet, Civilizations at war in Europe, proved that these are minds locked into a 1930s time-warp (see my review here).
Responding to charges that he is an anti-Semite loon, Maciej told the European Jewish Press:
‘Those who said [the pamphlet] is anti-Semitic haven’t read it. My impression is that critical comments come from people who have not read the book. They read only a few sentences".
No Maciej, I read the lot. Every word. It’s anti-Semitic tripe (and much more besides). The EJP continues:
He said his text, published in English, is an attempt to promote the teaching of Polish professor Feliks Koneczny, who has developed a "very interesting" method of classifying civilisations. "I am presenting his methods of classification," Giertych said. "It is in fact a contribution to the big discussion occurring in the world at the moment about the clash of civilisations."
I like the tense of ‘...Feliks Koneczny, who has developed a "very interesting" method of classifying civilizations.’ Note ‘who has’...but the guy died 58 years ago. Koneczny, and his ideas, are well and truly in the past (very simple) tense.
And that’s where the Gietychs should be. There has been a big fuss over the latest antics of the Giertych dynasty. But these people are no big deal, and their ideas – so antiquated – will gradually fall to bits like an old, pre-war, wardrobe.
Giertych-isms are well passed their sell by date.
52 comments:
On a more general note, all this talk about lack of children threatening the valiability of countries and cultures is pure nonsense. Just look at the Vatican.
????????
Ah, I see.....
http://www.ejpress.org/article/14535
eu's getting involved.
Let us analyze Mr. Giertych's controversial theses line by line, shall we?
"The propaganda of homosexuality is reaching ever younger children."
A graphic sex-ed manual promoting lesbianism to teenage girls is now offered for sale by Wal-Mart in the United States. [...] the material contains explicit directions for engaging in oral/anal sexual acts. The book encourages same-sex experimentation, telling girls that only 10 percent of the population is actually heterosexual, while 80 percent is "mixed" or bi-sexual.
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/nov/06111507.html
(A larger overview of the issue in Polish:
http://www.piotrskarga.pl/w,061222,2.php3 ).
"In some countries it is even forbidden for children in hospital to talk or read about mommy and daddy, because this allegedly violates minority rights. "
[UK's] National Health Service staff are being told to stop calling parents 'mother' or 'father' to avoid offending homosexual patients. [...] Instead, doctors, nurses and support staff are urged to use the words 'guardian' or 'carers' when referring to parents, in particular when speaking to children who are patients or visitors.
http://catholicactionuk.blogspot.com/2007/02/nhs-bans-words-mother-father-husband.html
"If we will not use all our power to strengthen the family, then as a continent there is not future for us. We will be a continent settled by representatives of the Islamic world who care for the family."
Today, the Muslim birth rate in Europe is three times higher than the non-Muslim one. If current trends continue, the Muslim population of Europe will nearly double by 2015, while the non-Muslim population will shrink by 3.5 percent.
http://www.brookings.edu/views/op-ed/fellows/taspinar20030301.htm
What is disturbing here are not Mr. Giertych theses, because they are known to everyone reading newspapers. Nor are his proposed solutions, despite being mostly unworkable. What is disturbing is that Mr. Giertych is being violently attacked by the media and EU authorities for stating the obvious and going against the established party line of the EU elites.
Just look at all the parents who may abort their children if they find they carry a gay gene.
Giertych is being violently attacked by the media and EU authorities for stating the obvious and going against the established party line of the EU elites.
Stating the obvious? Obvious bullshit, you mean.
The whole sad view of Giertych (plus opamp) is based on a very strange view of sexuality. That being that ‘homosexual propaganda’ will turn heterosexuals into raving gays and lesbians.
Well, that is not obvious at all.
It means that Giertych seems to agree with some of the more radical gay and lesbian writers that sexuality is the product of socialization. For instance as quoted in the rabidly pro-life lifesite.com, ’80 percent of people are bi-sexual’…and of course the only reason they are not active bi-sexual is because they have been socialized into behaving like strict heterosexuals.
So Gietych and radical gays agree: sexuality can be changed through socializing factors such as what messages they receive when young.
Interesting, but not so obvious at all, in fact that is a highly contentious statement.
But it’s nice to know that giertych and some gays agree on something. That if only we were all brought up to believe we are homosexual, we will be.
Obvious bullshit, you mean.
Well, than please prove that: the LGBT rights organizations don't run "educational" capaigns targeted at schoolchildren, the NHS did not ban the use of word "mother" and "native" Europeans have higher birth rates than Muslim immigrants.
And, my view of human sexuality is completely irrelevant: I simply believe that children should not be subject to any propaganda; we have seen enough bad results of it in this part of the world. Unfortunately, now children seem to be brainwashed with the tolerance for everything at all costs ideology, which, as shown by the example of Muslim minorities in Western Europe, is clearly harmful to the society.
Reading this blog, I've become a beatroot! The horror. Help me. Please help me!
I, too, believe that children should be protected from propaganda.
Please muzzle the Giertychs now.
BR, you got your whackos confused.
The book put out by the Lesbian group claimed that 80% of people were were bisexual or mixed, 10% hetero and 10% homosexual, not the LifeSite group.
opamp said: "prove that...the NHS did not ban the use of word "mother""
Hard to do since the sources are all second and third hand (a point opamp does not make or perhaps appreciate).
My best guess: A booklet was produced with suggested guidelines for dealing with non-heterosexual patients (and/or children/families of same).
Somehow those suffering from gay-derangement-syndrome* imagined that this is now mandatory NHS policy for dealing with all patients despite the fact that this "story" seems to exist only in the minds of bloggers who can't link to any particular source besides their own fevered imaginations (it hasn't been covered in any of the mainstream british press which it certainly would have had it been remotely true).
*those who lose all rational proportion when thinking that non-heterosexual people exist
I think it's interesting how little Giertych and opamp (and their ilk) appreciate how strong the majority's heterosexual orientation and how seductive they imagine homosexuality may be to the majority.
I'm in favor of full rights for gays
(including marriage and any industrial society without full gay marriage in this day and age ought to be ashamed).
But I realize this is an issue that affects a small majority as the overwhelming majority of people prefer heterosexual relationships and couldn't make a go of a non-heterosexual relationship if they tried which they don't want to.
Giertych et al seem to think that almost everybody is raring to go gay and only held back by pro-heterosexual propaganda, what a very strange way to perceive the world.
Ocamp – sorry, Opamp..
please prove that: the LGBT rights organizations don't run "educational" campaigns targeted at schoolchildren, the NHS did not ban the use of word "mother" and "native" Europeans have higher birth rates than Muslim immigrants.
You know, there are leaflets and stuff full of propaganda – but that is for homosexual teenagers who are feeling isolated and confused and need to know that they are not alone, it isn’t a crime being attracted to the same sex and that there is some support for them.
Nothing wrong with any of that.
But I am not really interested in gay organizations’ propaganda. I am interested in Giertych’s view of sexuality. Is he scared that if he is subjected to ‘gay propaganda’ he’s gonna want to fuck Wierzejski?
Ronald Mc. What’s so bad being a root veg?
Greetings Walter! But wouldn’t life be boring without the Giertychs – the Adams Family of Polish politics?
Janosik – yeah, I know that it was gay wacko groups that claimed we are all bi, and lifesite that is the wacko religious fascists…the confusions comes from one of my badly worded sentences…apologies…
Mike – my point entirely (but better expressed). Roman regards gays as forbidden fruit.
Hehe. I find being labeled a supporter of Giertych truly amusing given my view of this gentleman. Nevertheless...
Re: quoting secondary sources. Yes, I did quote secondary sources, because I was too lazy to research the referenced cases in depth. Nevertheless, the problem is that there are sources at all, even if secondary: it means that Giertych's speech was not based on his imagination, but on actual press reports, whatever is the veracity of them (although one article I linked to is copied from "Rzeczpospolita", which is hardly a wacko newspaper). Therefore my point about "stating the obvious facts".
You know, there are leaflets and stuff full of propaganda – but that is for homosexual teenagers who are feeling isolated and confused and need to know that they are not alone, it isn’t a crime being attracted to the same sex and that there is some support for them.
There is nothing wrong with telling kids that homosexualism is natural (because it is natural, given e.g. its prevalence among animals). This however should be the job of the sex ed teachers and not of LGBT activists, who are not accountable to anybody.
Last year, there was a scandal in Krakow when it was discovered that gay activists (in cooperation with City Hall, which of course later stated it was not informed of the details) organized workshops for schoolchildren, where they distributed the leaflets containing detailed instructions for male/male sex. Now, this for me is way over the top, and a clear case of homosexual propaganda. If we assume that this is okay, than we better right now start educating children about flogging techniques etc., just in case they develop interest in BDSM.
This case is well documented, google for: "Żyj namiętnie - kochaj się bezpiecznie"
Ocamp
There is nothing wrong with telling kids that homosexualism is natural (because it is natural, given e.g. its prevalence among animals).
You see, this is what makes me think that you are presenting an illogical argument.
Equating an animal like my dog’s sexuality (who shags everything – even table legs) with human sexuality shows a very dim view of humanity ( a very fashionable view today, sadly).
To be obvious, humans are conscious beings who often have sex for fun, pleasure…I don’t think my dog would understand any of those concepts…..
As for the case in Krakow is concerned: are you suggesting that kids who never had a gay thought in their heads are suddenly going to start listening to Abba records?
I repeat: I think people who are scared of folks simply talking about sexuality are very insecure about their own sexuality.
I like Abba. Does that mean I'm gay?
Certainly, I'd rather be gay than a root vegetable.
I may be a clown, but I'm a human being!
Just when I was thinking I might be gay, I got my hands on one of those leaflets in Krakow. Looking at it, I quickly realized ain't no way I'm gay.
Like I said, the Giertychs need to be muzzled... and then some. So sorry to compare them to your dog but there does seem to be a certain equivalence...
Equating an animal like my dog’s sexuality (who shags everything – even table legs)...
Ronny Mc
Listen: About a year and a half ago I was subjected to root vegetable propaganda and I instantly became a beatroot! And I have not regretted it for a moment…
Walter - my dog is also particularly fond of leather!
Beatroot - “And that’s where the Gietychs should be” – Correct.., and listening to my girlfriend, who is just about old and young enough to remember the shady old times and the promise of a bright, impartial future, that’s just where they will end up – EVENTUALLY. I suspect the free-thinking attitude amongst the majority of contemporary Polish ‘liberals’, although pragmatic and understanding of the uncertainty amongst those experiencing insecurity and ‘transformational fright’, will ultimately rub off all round and prevail.
opamp said...
Let us analyze Mr. Giertych's controversial theses line by line, shall we?
"In some countries it is even forbidden for children in hospital to talk or read about mommy and daddy, because this allegedly violates minority rights. "
[UK's] National Health Service staff are being told to stop calling parents 'mother' or 'father' to avoid offending homosexual patients. [...] Instead, doctors, nurses and support staff are urged to use the words 'guardian' or 'carers' when referring to parents, in particular when speaking to children who are patients or visitors.
http://catholicactionuk.blogspot.com/2007/02/nhs-bans-words-mother-father-husband.html
From the source given above by you as proof of the truth of what the leader of the league of Polish fascists said (I'll post from the pdf of the report when I'm at a computer which has acrobat on it)
"The rulebook adds: 'LGBT people can and do have children - sexual orientation or gender identity has nothing to do with good parenting or good child care. When talking to children, consider using 'parents', 'carers' or 'guardians' rather than 'mother' or 'father'. ' "
Please explain how the words 'consider' and 'ban' have the same meaning. As in "you are banned from using the word 'father' " and "you should consider not using the word 'father' ".
harry - well, indeed.
But the NHS handbook does sound a bit twatish. If someone is the father or mother of a child - and a gay parent is the father and a the lesbien is the mother - then why should we consider not using it?
Welcome, the slide! keep listejing to the girlfriend. This all didn’t just come out of thin air. It was always here. Poland didn’t have a ‘1960s’ civil rights thing and the years directly after 1989 saw a kind of consensus to get EU into the EU. All sides played ball. But once Poland got inside NATO and the EU then the conservatives broke ranks and all this stuff started coming out. And we should try and get t all out because that is the only way to defeat it.
"If we will not use all our power to strengthen the family, then as a continent there is not future for us. We will be a continent settled by representatives of the Islamic world who care for the family."
Of course, the image of gays ushering in the European Islamic Caliph is a delicious one and should be cherished by us all.
I think you misunderstood what Giertych was saying. He wasn't accusing gays of collaborating with Islamists. He was claiming that gays are destroying the European civilisation, and that Islamism might be the only thing to save it by taking its place.
His comments are both anti-gay and pro-Islamic. Giertych isn't a Polish Bush. He is a Polish Farakhan.
Next year, he will convert to Islam and make his pilgrimage to Mecca...
Sonia - you are stating the obvious...I didn;t mean gays were colluding with Muslims...it was an image...that;s all...
If being gay is really a true threat to European civilization as we know it, I just went queer.
Hi, most interesting site. Wondering if any of your learned readers can assist us. We are in Australia and trying to locate the natural father of my brother in law in Poland. Language difficulties are not helping! He was in the Polish Navy based in Plymouth, England during the war. He was nursed by my mother in law in a hospital in Plymouth, they had a relationship and a child was born in May 1946, The sailor wanted her and the child to go back to Poland with him, but due to conditions they could not. They then lost contact. The son is now trying to locate his father or any members of his family in Poland as his mother and step father have passed away. Hope you can give us some ideas where to start looking? Any assistance appreciated. Thank you. Gail
look, its a waste of time to answer nut jobs like Opamp. And really, at this point, its absurd to keep pointing out the obvious...that the Giertych family is deranged...AND not very smart. Why more poles arent upset by this is a better question.
I mean Roman is N U T S.....and deeply backward. Its a disservice to Poland that he at all represents the face of this country (or his dad for that matter).
The anti gay hysteria is actually pretty amusing if you can step back...and a lot of the answers on this thread speak to the intelligence of your readers, Beat. They see the joke, but also the horror.
It is a bit scary.
GAIL
I get lots of letters like yours where I work. I always say the same thing: for the UK, try the Salvation Army – they still do a lot of tracing people as part of their work.
In Poland it would be better to come here. There are lots of records of people, where they live etc. You could apply to the relevant offices here. But don’t get your hopes up.
Stepxx
You wonder why many more Poles don’t get upset about these Neanderthals. But just look at the polls – LPR will be lucky to get more than 5% in any election next time. And the reason they get a little bit more sometimes is when the Poles feel like sticking to fingers up at the more established parties.
As in "you are banned from using the word 'father' " and "you should consider not using the word 'father' ".
"Your Honor, I did consider using the word 'guardian', however, in order to determine whether I should use the more appropriate term 'father', I had to ask the boy a series of detailed questions about his family. Therefore I claim that his accusation of verbal sexual harassment has no merit".
The anti gay hysteria is actually pretty amusing
What anti gay hysteria, really?
The only party that behaves hysterically here are LGBT groups (and their supporters) shouting discrimination when someone finds their practices disgusting and opposes their public promotion.
And contrary to the widespread propaganda, nobody in Poland really cares who you fuck and how, as long as it stays behind the closed doors. But of course, keeping this behind the closed doors is so... unprogressive and untolerant.
And contrary to the widespread propaganda, nobody in Poland really cares who you fuck and how, as long as it stays behind the closed doors.
That’s completely correct. So different from UK tabloid culture.
And I do not think that the attacks on opamp have been fair. Looking back on previous posts by the guy, he is not a loon or stupid...the opposite, in fact….
I don’t agree with what opamp has been saying on this thread, but if opamp is wrong then we have to come up with some good arguments, and not personal abuse….
Not being gay it's perhaps not for me to comment about what gay people would like and would not like but from the many conversations I have had with gay people they would like to be treated like other people. They would like to be able to have the same tax breaks as other people, the same rights as partners which other people have, perhaps the same right to adopt as other people (but probably not in Poland for a long time), the same ability to make decisions about medical treatment which other people have and, in the case of one person I know, to be able to take the dead body of the person with whom they had been living for five years from the hospital where their partner had died and organise the funeral instead of the parents of the dead partner being able to take the body and organise the funeral without even telling the surviving partner when and where the funeral would be.
If you want to keep who people fuck behind closed doors then keep it behind closed doors. But if you really want to do that you have to do away with all notions of marriage unless marriage itself is made equal.
I remember in the run up the ‘civil unions’ or whatever tbey call gay marriages in the UK there was a consultation paper by the new Labour government about what to call gay marriages. They went through many different terms but the one they left out was ‘marriage’. They just couldn’t bring themselves to call it that.
So even governments like that – which seem to be falling over themselves to prove how right on they are - can’t even call a marriage a marriage.
So gays do not have euqality in Britain either.
Gay marriage in Britain is – to paraphrase Oscar Wilde - the marriage that dare not speak its name.
"And contrary to the widespread propaganda, nobody in Poland really cares who you fuck and how, as long as it stays behind the closed doors."
Well this is accurate enough but I think the reasons are worth looking into...
The problem with the concept of gay rights in Poland is that it indirectly brings up a lot of issues that almost no one in the country wants to deal with, especially in terms of sexual hypocrisy.
Despite the supposed social conservatism of Polish people pre-marital sex is the norm and widely accepted (if not openly approved of).
Discreet adultry is also generally tolerated (IME a spouse being platonically friendly with a member of the opposite sex in public was more frowned on than private adultery would be).
Many Polish people are adept at building a wall between their public values and private behavior and the concept of gay rights (with the implicit idea of owning up to one's sexual and other life choices) is a psychic threat that many cannot bear.
They went through many different terms but the one they left out was ‘marriage’.
And there is a good reason for that. Marriage has always been primarily about its reproductive function. Since homosexual couples are by definition unable to reproduce (technicalities aside), the term "marriage" should not apply.
Consequently, I believe that "legalized" (see below) homosexual couples should not be given the right to adopt children: since it would be unnatural for a gay couple to have children, it is equally unnatural to raise them (and there is a good chance that the children would be somewhat confused).
Most of the rights mentioned above can be established as a matter of legal agreement between partners. A PACS-style civil union simplifies the needed paperwork and is a reasonable compromise. (Do I sound like Roman here?) Unfortunately, gay activists have to complicate matters by demanding the right to "marriage".
^ I'd say that what "gay activists" (and your phrasing makes it possible for me to include myself) actually want is official acknowledgement that all humans are equally and that no humans are more equal than others. Denying people rights based solely on your views of actions which they take that affect only them is identical to denying them rights based on your views of their religion (not that any of the Giertych Jungen would have any problem with gasing Jews if they had the chance).
I assume you'd support mandatory fertility tests for those who wish to marry. If marriage has always been primarily about its reproductive function, clearly people who are unable to reproduce should not be allowed to marry. Which means no women should be allowed to marry after the menopause. Or men who've had the snip (not that any Polish men are allowed to have such a disgraceful operation).
Ten out of ten for your comments about what is and is not natural. As it is natural to sit in a tree eating one's dinner as it squirms in one's hand, I assume you have no problem with me coming round to your house and cutting off your heating, hot water and electricity. After all, those things are not natural and I want to protect you from the confusion that has clearly resulted from giving you access to such things.
When people start talking about its 'not natural' - and these are usually homophobes or environmentalists - I just want to puke.
Like you say Harry, the great thing about humans is that we have transended 'natural'.
Beatroot:
We know how to find you.Be careful!
http://www.polish-youth.org/
And I think you are an arsehole.
Do you know what you have just confirmed to me? That you and people like you are incapable of wining a political argument and have to resort to that kind of shit.
I think it's time you gave up this politics thing...politics is about winning arguments...and crawl back under the stone where you came from.
Beatroot:
You will be under a GRAVESTONE soon!
Polish patriot
So do you think that you can win an argument that way? Are you so unconfidant about your point of view that you can't even articulate it? All you are doing is admiting that you have lost the argument.
Cheers!
Just like your insults in our site.
Polish patriot
Hi Patriot,
Do you mind if I ask you a question: why are all of the members of the Giertych Jungen such fucktarded shiteaters? It really is quite amazing that so many people of such low intelligence can all be a group and still remember to breathe.
But I must thank you delightful bigots for proving that Darwin's theories about evolution are not correct. All we have to do is look at the All-Polish turdmunchers and then visit the monkey house at the zoo: that shows that in fact apes are descended from creatures such as yourself and we are descended from apes.
Harry:
Shut up nigger!
Wow Pat! You are so good at insulting people!
Wow Pat! You are so good at insulting people!
Harry - these people are just a disgrace to Poland...but not representative. And as they seem unable to formulate any kind of political position at all...just teenage tantrums...they are not a threat to civilization as we know it....
Wow Pat! You are so good at insulting people!
Not as good as you...
«Do you mind if I ask you a question: why are all of the members of the Giertych Jungen such fucktarded shiteaters? It really is quite amazing that so many people of such low intelligence can all be a group and still remember to breathe.
But I must thank you delightful bigots for proving that Darwin's theories about evolution are not correct. All we have to do is look at the All-Polish turdmunchers and then visit the monkey house at the zoo: that shows that in fact apes are descended from creatures such as yourself and we are descended from apes. »
Written by a RACIST BLACK MAN.
^ Completely wrong! Apart from the bit about me being a man anyway.
Every scientific paper, even if written by denrologist about race, culture and civilization should provide bibliographical references. In the paper are references to Koneczny work published in 1930'. But there are no references to other work published in 1930', from which author borrowed plenty of ideas. The book title is "Mein Kampf", by A.H.
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