Thursday, January 04, 2007

Refugee tried to infect innocent Poles with HIV, screams the tabloids!

African poet, playwright, human rights worker and Poland’s ‘celebrity’ refugee, has been arrested for deliberately spreading HIV to ‘at least’ 100 women in Warsaw.

This story, to anyone who knows the guy, stinks.

The newspapers Dziennik and tabloid Fakt (both owned by the German Axel Springer publisher), splashed headlines all over their front pages today claiming ‘He infected 100 women’!

On the inside pages they describe ‘Simon M’ - a refugee from Cameroon who has won numerous awards for both his artistic and humanitarian work - as a charming charlatan, who knowingly infected unsuspecting girls with the virus.

He would seduce them at artistic parties, he would stop girls in the street and ask them for directions!

The opening paragraph of the Fakt story:

‘Tender words by this well-read, black skinned lover have deceived many Warsaw girls. But Simon only had one thing on his mind – drag them to bed and infect them with the deadly virus HIV.’

I love the ‘black skinned lover’ bit. Later the article says:

‘It’s known that he has seduced at least 100 women.’

Apparently, the accusations that Simon has HIV, knew had HIV, and then deliberately tried to infect ‘at least 100 women’ with HIV, began to circulate on internet forums of arty types in the capital – see poezja.org and teatr.pl (he is a playwright and poet, remember!) when someone posted that he ‘is conscious that he has HIV, but lies, and without scruples knowingly sentences girls to death’!

This ‘warning’ went unheard until December, when the panic began to build after someone responded:

‘I am one of the infected women that you write about. THIS MAN SPREADS HIV.’

On the main evening TVN news the police said that they had received ‘numerous calls’ from women who had been with Simon (is this where the ‘100’ figure comes from?). Four women who have tested positive for HIV (following reading the forums?) had unprotected sex with the guy. He ‘doesn’t like condoms’, said the TV reporter pruriently.

Africans + AIDS + Poland = racism

These allegations will not come as a shock to Simon, sadly. On his web site on Feb 26, 2006, he wrote:

Some three-years ago, my [Polish] girlfriend was forced by her parents to split with me after a 12-month affair. They couldn’t tolerate the fact that their daughter was dating an African. After our split she was further compelled by her relatives to undergo an HIV test to verify her medical state after this ‘unclean affair’ with an African. She did the test, which emerged negative.

As I said, this story smells bad...

Though the article in Fakt claims that the rumours of Simon spreading the disease started last June, it seems that they emerged much earlier. In February last he writes:

Character assassination isn’t a new phenomenon. However, it appears here the game respects no rules. It wouldn’t be superfluous to state that there is an ingrained, hash and disturbing dislike for Africans here. The accusation of being HIV positive is the latest weapon that as an African your enemy can raise against you. This ideologically inspired weapon, is strengthened by the day with disturbing literature about Africa from supposed-experts on Africa, some of whom openly boast of traveling across Africa in two weeks and return home to write volumes. What some of these hastily compiled volumes have succeeded in breeding, is a social and psychological conviction that ‘every African walking the street here is supposedly HIV positive, and woe betide anyone who dares to unravel the myth being put in place.

Anyone who knows Simon – and I have met him several times – finds these accusations incredible, in all meanings of the word.

He is described in the newspapers as a sensitive, intelligent, educated person – and that’s exactly how he seems to me. He is here as a refugee after being persecution in his own country.

Since being in Poland he has played a very active part in various anti-racism campaigns, has had books of poems published and plays put on in the theatre. He has also been a tireless worker with other refugees and those seeking refugee status in Poland (governments here have been completely unprepared for these people, so someone has to help them).

The accusations against him are that:

a) has HIV
b) knows that he has HIV
c) had unprotected sex with women when he knew he had HIV
d) did not tell them he had HIV,
e) and certainly in the FAKT article, tried to infect them with HIV
f) and then when confronted by the women after they discovered points a to e lied about the having HIV in the first place.

If found guilty he could face up to 12 years in jail.

But how we know any of this is not clear at all from the media reports.

Simon is pleading not guilty, of course. It's like one of those off-the-peg stories Polish tabloid journos dream of: 'Black African artistic seducer infects innocent Polish girls with HIV!!!

Knowledge about HIV – and Africans, for that matter - is very limited here. Just ripe for a scare story.

These are very serious allegations, of course, and the fate of not just Simon M but the image of African refugees in Poland rests on the outcome.

Ominously, in February 2006, Simon seemed to know what was coming:

As an activist, I know I have set myself on the firing line.

82 comments:

Kudo_Kenshin said...
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Harry said...

The Polish gutter press reflecting the racist shit their readers believe. What a shocker!

It is a simple fact of the matter is that many Poles are racist scatmunchers. Things are bad enough in Warsaw but go out to the small towns and you soon find that attitudes in this country are as bad as they were in the Deep South of the USA a hundred years ago. The only reason that there is no segregation in Poland is that there are not enough non-whites to make the cost and effort worthwhile.

Racism and homophobia are two of the things which really fuck me off about Poland. And I haven't noticed things getting better in the decade-plus that I've been here. Perhaps very slightly better. Football fans throwing bananas at black players is now regarded as news (sometimes), as is politicians making openly racist statements. Roma are slightly less likely to get burned out of their houses (mainly because so many of them have gone to the UK). There hasn't been a lynching for a matter of months now. But given the increased number of non-whites now in Poland and thus the greater the chances for Poles to realise for themselves that skin colour is only skin colour, the situation is not in the slightest encouraging.

The only thing about the story is that Polish men find it so easy to believe that a black man can have sex with 100 women in a couple of years. The only way the average Polish man will have sex with 100 different women is if he spends 10,000zloty in brothels. And they know it too.

jannovak57 said...

Is it surprising that the print media found an easy story to sensationalize? How do you think they sell newspapers, it’s about making money and hopefully the facts don’t get in the way of the story? Not to mention the story fits widely held stereotypes, Harry’s unflattering description of Polish attitudes is accurate.

This person is a public figure therefore he gets media attention wanted or unwanted, goes with the territory.

This story seems to suggest he showed up in Poland with AIDs and didn’t get it there. Wouldn’t it have been a standard procedure to have the public health people check refugees for things like AIDs or TB, if they’re coming from high-risk areas? If this isn’t happening it’s negligence with a capital N.

In any western country, if several ex-girlfriends showed up at the police station complaining you knowingly had given them AIDs a criminal investigation would be launched. And before you get prosecuted they have to prove:

-he has AIDs
-he knew he had AIDs
-the strain of AIDs his victims are afflicted with is the same as his

Even for the Polish police this should be easy to sort out, without leaving too much for the imagination.

Mixed race couples are still considered a social taboo, by many Poles.

nemeczek said...

This story was huge on Onet.pl yesterday - most readers (i.e., Polish men, I guess) took this opportunity to criticize Polish women for their, alleged, lack of moral compass combined with 'fondness' of other ethnicities (I sensed jealousy here...).
Privacy and confidentiality issues aside, I wouldn't cry racism just yet, though. If the guy is indeed HIV-positive and aware of it, but keeps on having unprotected sex with other people w/o letting them know about his condition then he is committing a crime. Obviously, points (a) and (b) on your list are not offences (even in Kaczynski’s Poland!), so this is not what he is accused of – nobody gets prosecuted for being sick. But (c) and (d) are crimes indeed, as they are in most countries (I guess). The very fact that he is a refugee, and a nice person in social settings makes no difference either way (the US senator Folley is charming, so was Jonathan ‘the sword of truth’ Aitken... the list of charming rascals is endless).
Of course, if it turns out that the man had nothing to do with infecting those four women, or had been unaware of his condition until Fakt or some other tabloid announced it to the Poles, then the story does stink. Unlike in many other countries, in Poland one can get locked up for libel, so journalists tend to think twice before putting themselves in legal troubles. I am convinced, however, that if this poor soul were ethnically Polish, the story would still make Fakt's front page. It wouldn't sell as many copies though...
The Polish racism might be widespread and vocal (we are an unusually ethnically homogenous country after all) but it is very mild-mannered, as people do not tend to act on their prejudices (the Catholic guilt, you know...). In this respect, the PRESENT (not of a century ago, Harry) Deep South of the US is much worse. The physical separation of various ethnic groups (i.e., many parallel Americas), “make sure the Sun does not set while you are in my town” attitude, race tensions muzzled by political correctness, justice sacrificed in the name of racial peace (OJ Simpson), the Katrina mess – it ain’t happening in Poland.

beatroot said...
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beatroot said...

My point is not really about whether he is a nice guy or not.

Was he lying nearly a year ago when writing on his web site? Was he lying about being forced to end a relationship three years ago with his girlfriend? Was he lying about the HIV test that her very pleasant parents forced her to have? Was he lying that it was negative? Was he lying that he didn’t have HIV? Was he lying about the racism? Does the ‘100 women’ seem credible? He claims on his web site (again well before June, as claimed) that there were rumours going around about this. He claims in the same post that he had only three girlfriends since he was in Poland. Is he lying about all that too?

Simon is innocent until proven otherwise.

Shame the 'journalists' in the Polish media seem to forget that…

nemeczek said...

Beatroot,
Unfortunately, I have not seen this guy's website (I've read some poems, though - not my cup of tea, I must admit). I can easily imagine Polish parents 'forcing' (as far as one can force an adult) their daughter to end a relationship with a man of African origin. Is it a form of racism? Sure. Happens everywhere where different cultures collide. I have no reason to doubt that one of his female friends tested negative for HIV. From this, an optimist can draw a conclusion that the man himself must have also been HIV-negative. A cynic can say the girl was just lucky (fortunately, it is not that easy to get infected). Of course, character assassination in tabloid press is always contemptible, as it is difficult to defend against it. For tabloids, peoples' tragedies are mere fodder - no more, no less. The more sex in it (preferably of a 'forbidden' variety) the better. It sells. From what I understand, the Polish press reported the cops had been looking into a matter of an HIV infection cluster with this guy being the only link between the infected women. The cops' action was not prompted by what Fakt et. al. printed. With infection clusters it is important to make the public aware of it, otherwise it is going to be very hard to contain secondary infections (and neutralize the primary, sexually very active, source). I can only imagine how many people in Warsaw asked themselves some very tough questions when they had learned about this sad case and placed themselves within the social sphere of the victims. Some will get tested, some will change their sexual habits - it is all for the better. I remember a case of an HIV cluster in Doncaster, UK (it must have been like 7,8 years ago). The British tabloids were buzzing about it - you simply need publicity in cases like this. It is especially true in Poland where HIV/AIDS is not something people want to talk/think about.

geez said...

Yea, things are so much better everywhere in the civilized US of A.

Michael Farris said...

Is anyone else thinking about bulgarian nurses?

beatroot said...

Of course, just because a girlfriend that he had been with for a year didn’t get HIV is no proof that HE doesn’t have HIV – the virus is not that easy to contract in a healthy female even if they did have unprotected sex. But it sure does make it much much less likely that a one night stand would contract the disease (and if he has apparently worked his way through 100 girls in Warsaw (!!!) then these must have been casual affairs.

I didn’t provide a link to the web site because officially we are not supposed to identify him. But it’s pretty easy to find if you want. And if you read it then you will get a very different impression of what has been going on here.

If he doesn’t have HIV then he has nothing to worry about (except for the fact that he has got refugee status in a country completely unprepared both practically and culturally to cope with them.

Simon knows some good human rights lawyers, so I think when he proves innocence then there are lots of legal writs he can make some money out of. I hope so. .

Brad said...

I used to think that where I originally come from (Portland, Oregon, USA) was "very" white. Then I came to Poland.

How Polish people can actually be racist is both weird and funny to me, seeing as how a lot of them have probably never seen a black person except on TV. Even in Krakow it's absurdly rare to see an asian person much less a black person (the rynek is the exception!).

I think it is more appropriate to label most Poles as xenophobic rather than racist ...and to me xenophobia would and does make sense. Even as an American I have experienced discrimination, and Poles are supposed to love the US. For those pople ...It's not because they dislike Americans, I think it's because a lot of them don't understand other cultures and are too lazy to bother with it.

That all being said, I've also met a lot of Poles who are perfectly ok with everything and are quite well adjusted in their attitudes.

Lastly, I've also met an absurd number of Americans who are just as xenophobic. They tend to be the equivalent of ignorant villagers, as is the case here when encountering xenophobia. There are problems everywhere, unfortunately.

Harry said...

I'd have to disagree with you Brad: Poles are generally much more racist than xenophobic. Just look at the abuse which non-white Poles get, it is far worse than what a white foreigner will get (assuming that the white foreigner is not Jewish or Roma, obviously).

nemeczek said...

I am just reading on Onet.pl that Simon M. has been arrested. So something must be up, otherwise they would have released him after 48 hours - it is not possible to incarcerate people based on mere gossip. It has probably turned up, despite his claims to the contrary, that he is indeed HIV-positive. Of course, this fact in itself is not a crime, but it does make his accusers' stories more believable. They will now try to prove who passed it on to whom, but I read somewhere that at least one of the infected women contracted a very distinct variety of HIV. His supporters will probably play the race card as much as possible, but I do not see Ziobro paying any attention to it. And rightly so, as justice should be color blind. In Poland, OJ would have been rotting in jail, and not publishing books on how he would have committed the crimes he had been accused of.

nemeczek said...

As to the Bulgarian nurses... Poland is not Libya. The Colonel is playing his own game - at the end of the day he will pardon everybody. Alternatively, the Bulgarians will blink first and pay up - I recall reading somewhere that the Libyans want the amount of money equal to what they had to pay for the Lockerbee bombing. Are there any parallels between the Libyan story and Simon M.? I think not, but it sounds like a reasonable defense strategy.

beatroot said...

Has he been arrested or charged? (sounds a silly question but in the UK these are different things?

nemeczek said...

Beatroot:
They can detain him for up to three months now, so I guess he has been formally arraigned. Otherwise, like in the UK, they would have to let him go. The bail has been denied as the penalty he is facing is ~10 years. The authorities were also worried about his interference with potential witnesses. In addition, The Justice Ministry has made his case public (including his photograph) and described his (alleged) actions as 'deliberate'. They are calling for other potential victims to come forward... In a nutshell, it does look bad.

nemeczek said...

One more thing... Simon Mol, when questioned by the cops, denied being HIV infected. The subsequent tests proved otherwise. Now he claims that his earlier test (in 1999) came back negative. I guess, his current story will be that his true HIV status is news to him and he got infected while in Poland. Moreover, over the past few years he kept on ignoring women who we telling him he had infected them with HIV.

sonia said...

Strange story. A lot of facts are unknown (is he infected? did he infect others ?) and it's diffiult to form an opinion until they will be revealed.

But the larger story is of course racism. Unlike Western Europe, where racism is mixed with guilt about colonialism, in Eastern Europe Africans cannot count on any sympathy. Instead, they are remembered as stupid fools who until 1960's had British or French citizenship and then voluntarily choose to declare independance and loose all those priviledges, in favor of bloody dictatorships, socialist or otherwise...

In Poland, there was so much Communist propaganda about brave Africans fighting against colonial oppression and trying to build socialism, it has destroyed the reputation of Africans for two generations at least...

Jannovak57 said...

I understand the allegations only refer to four women but the authorities have said there are many others, which have not come forward. In light of the atmosphere in Poland, it will be interesting to see if he gets a fair trial. As this case will be based on scientific and medical evidence there is no real room for the exercise of racial biases.

Just as footnote to the big picture, there is a connection to Blacks going back to the Polish – Soviet War 1920.

See - http://www.poloniatoday.com/blacksons0404.htm

Also there were a few Blacks in Warsaw during the 30’s, they can be seen in newsreels of the day, does anyone know what became of them?

Michael Farris said...

"Also there were a few Blacks in Warsaw during the 30’s, they can be seen in newsreels of the day"

I assume they merged into the general population (if they weren't killed by the nazis first).
There've often been black people kicking around European countries, they just didn't usually form endogamous minorities like Gypsies or Blacks in the US, if they reproduced it was with the local population and after a few generations their genes were diluted. There are Poles around with traces of negroid features (not as many as have Asian features but they're there).

geez said...

So most people in Poland bought the communist propaganda line hook, line and sinker?
Funny, for some reason I thought most Poles thought communist propaganda a bunch of horsedoody.

As in any society, different groups of people generally have different attitudes about this or that.

To say that Poles are this or that is like saying that Americans or whatever group are this or that.

That said, as an American, I think most Americans are boorish assholes and I don't blame those Poles who are annoyed by most American tourists in Poland.

Anonymous said...

"poles are xenophobic rassists" = THAT is a racist statement.

btw. read that..

http://lukaszwarzecha.salon24.pl/3523,index.html

beatroot said...

Niemeczek
So it seems that he has been arrested but not charge. And I find that people like him can be kept up to three months without being charged a disgrace!!! That’s barbarian! Where I come from you can’t even keep a terrorist suspect for longer than a month!

Something wrong there. The Polish legal system must be criminally inefficient to need that long to get good enough evidence to charge someone.

As to the ‘racism’ or ‘xenophobia’ debate. As someone said, Poles are not equally xenophobic about all types of people. They are selective on grounds of ‘race’. So that’s when xenophobia becomes a racial prejudice.

Poles have quite strong racial prejudices – as much through ignorance (living in a monoculture) as anything else.

But racism is not just a prejudice, it’s a structural power relationship. But you won’t find racism within the Polish constitution. You won’t find racist government policies.

Someone like Simon would point to a structural discrimination of Africans in Poland. And that is racism. He would also point to the under reported physical attacks on blacks here. And I imagine the experience he is having right now (banged up in a jail) is confirming his point of view.

Harry said...

Anonymous said...
"poles are xenophobic rassists" = THAT is a racist statement.


Pretty lucky that nobody here said that eh?



Beatroot: people can be locked up in Poland for years under temporary arrest. Bruce Robinson, former General Director of Foundation Member company ExpoMedia has been locked up since February 21st last year. Some of his cellmates have been locked up for five years with no trial. The record for Poland is nine years. Three months is, sadly, nothing.

nemeczek said...

Beatroot:
Surely Simon Mol HAS faced the judge! I have looked it up and that's what I found about ‘areszt tymczasowy’ (temporary arrest) (my own clumsy translation so bear with me): "In Poland, the temporary arrest can be used ONLY when the gathered evidence indicates WITH HIGH PROBABILITY that the accused has committed a crime. The temporary arrest can be imposed by THE COURT OF LAW based on the application notice filed by a PROSECUTOR. ‘Areszt tymczasowy’ can be imposed for up to three months and extended for up to a year". I am no lawyer, but it seems to me that a very similar burden of proof is required (and sufficient) during arraignment in the US or UK. At least, that’s how it looks on “CSI. Criminal Intent” (lol). If it takes longer in Poland than it does in the UK to prepare a case then it is regretful. It does not mean, however, that Poland is a banana republic where a foreigner can get arrested because a scorned woman accuses him of some wrongdoing. The burden of proof I mentioned is a safety net that ensures that a person temporary arrested is guilty – it is not foolproof, sure, but cases are thrown out of court everywhere. And there were legit reasons to deny him bail.
I am not exactly sure why Polish xenophobia and racism are on trial on this website. Neither do I understand the overwhelming sympathy for the accused. Why not feel sorry for the young lives he ruined (allegedly). Wait, I know, innocent until proven guilty. The way I see it, the guy did openly lie about his HIV status. He also ignored the women who were informing him that he had infected them. Because of it, his credibility goes down the drain. I do not believe his purpose in life was to infect as many Polish women as possible, but I do believe that he did not care about health and well being of his partners. In his own selfish way he just wanted to get off regardless of the cost to others. Plain and simple.

nemeczek said...

Harry:
Re: Bruce Robinson (from Wikipedia)
"Bruce Robinson (and two others) were interviewed (an interpreter was available for Mr. Robinson) and charged with criminal negligence – allegedly they were aware of the fact that the building was unsafe and yet allowed the fair to go on, and by doing so they contributed to deaths of 65 people."

geez said...

NEMECZEK wrote: I am not exactly sure why Polish xenophobia and racism are on trial on this website.
____
Maybe a tilt towards reverse sensationalism (vis-a-vis Fakt et. al) rather than investigative reporting.

And I was thought I really knew a guy who I never ever in a million years would have thought to be responsible for having sexually harassed a woman but it turned out that he did. So go figure.

Jannovak57 said...

Whatever the outcome of the legal process, exoneration or prosecution Simon M. can hold his head high as one of the people not accused of collaboration with the Communist-era secret police. Perhaps Archbishop Stanislaw Wielgus would like to trade places with him.

Anonymous said...

On a lighter note, there is one thing that Simon won't have to worry about while in prison. He's definitely not going to be anyone's bitch.
Sorry, I could'nt resist..

beatroot said...

Anon - someone said the same thing to me yesterday. But if the FAKT version of events is true then there are rather a lot of POles who are attracted to black geezers here.

As for POlish racism and xenophobia being on trial here. If these charges are false then I think we being very relevant indeed. If what is being said is true then I am going to look very silly indeed.

We'll see...

steppx said...

i love that sonia can even attribute polish racism to the commies. Most amusing....if madness can ever be amusing.

Yes, its a very xenophobic and racist country. Sadly. I see it in students all the time....and clearly see it in the older generation. The Church does little, it seems to me, in helping this (radio maria anyone?!!). The current government is homophobic and backward....Giertych and the twins....about the only europeans to support the lynching of saddam.

This case is strange, to be sure. I have no idea of the facts....but I do know its exploitive journalism. And its aimed at the insecurity of the average polish (xenophobic) male.

Brad said...

BTW, no where did I call Poles "xenophobic racists."

This comment was made based on my experiences in Poland. As I said, "I've also met a lot of Poles who are perfectly ok with everything and are quite well adjusted in their attitudes."

When people treat me differently or badly AFTER I speak my crappy Polish ...that's xenophobia. It's not racism, because I'm as white as the next Polish person. I don't get any special looks or words until I speak.

I have a Lybian friend here who has integrated fairly well. I don't think he has any more trouble than I do and he is quite clearly not white. Which also makes me think this is more about xenophobia rather than racism.

At 12:40 AM, nemeczek said...
"I am not exactly sure why Polish xenophobia and racism are on trial on this website."

...Because the Fakt/Dziennik article was completely sensationalized because this guy's skin is dark and not light?

I don't have sympathy for him if he knew he had HIV or should have reasonably suspected it. I do if he didn't know or this is all a bunch of BS. He could be African, American or from the Azores for all I care. If he's guilty, throw his ass in jail. If he's free, let him go. Either way, a speedy and fair trial is what he deserves having been accused. 3 months doesn't sound very speedy to me, though.

As I often say (not here), "All I want is for things to be fair." For everyone.

Michael Farris said...

I'm going to plead ignorance about the specifics of this case but won't let me stop that from a few random points of interest.

There's no shortage of men with STD's who are careless and give no thought whatsoever to whether they might infect their sex partners (I don't know if that applies to Mr Mokele).

It's much harder for me to believe that a guy would know he's positive and purposely try to infect partners. It's theoretically possible but pretty unlikely (and it's not easy to transmit HIV either).

Whatever problems Africans have in Poland, problems in finding companionship of the opposite sex is not one of them. (African women are significantly less likely to exploit this situation than men are).

If Mr Mokele was a white refugee and accused of exactly the same thing, the case would probably be handled very differently in the media (this is not unique to Poland).

Most (though not all) xenophobia and/or racism in Poland is a result of a lack of exposure rather than of ideology.

I can't imagine that the current government wants more non-Poles in the country, especially non-white people. I don't think the Kaczynskis et al are actively racist, just deeply unimaginitive, provincial and backward looking.

Harry said...

nemeczek said...
Harry:
Re: Bruce Robinson (from Wikipedia)
"Bruce Robinson (and two others) were interviewed (an interpreter was available for Mr. Robinson) and charged with criminal negligence – allegedly they were aware of the fact that the building was unsafe and yet allowed the fair to go on, and by doing so they contributed to deaths of 65 people."


What's your point? It is alleged that those things happened, not proved. Innocent men are locked up in Poland. No wonder the CIA chose Poland as the ideal spot for a black-ops prison. Detention for years on end with no trial is to be expected in Poland.

beatroot said...

Harry – you are talking about the CIA prisons as if they are a fact: his is speculation without evidence (much like his discussion as a whole).

Mike raises a good point: that HIV is actually rather difficult to contract if you are generally healthy anyway. The point about why women are getting HIV in Africa from careless men is that are usually sick with something else in the first place. The HIV virus is a feeble one that needs an opening in the skin to get into the system. Many women in Africa have vaginal ulser which make contraction more likely (this is why anul sex is much more dangerous in this regard than the usual ‘front bottom’ method!

Gussie Fink-Nottle said...

I'd like to think that one good, which can come out of this, is to highlight the issue of racism in Poland. Yes racism, not xenophobia. On that forum "poezja.org", mentioned by Beatroot, about 80% of comments are blatantly racist, including things that would give a pause to a white American supremacist: "those women should be arrested for practicing zoophilia", "the blacks need to be dealt with the same way that the Jews were dealt with by Hitler", etc.

I haven't seen any journalists speaking out against racism in this case. There must be thousands of HIV infected Polish men, and I don't believe
that all of them have given up unprotected sex. If responsible people remain silent, the potato-twins and their ilk could use this case to introduce some anti-refugee and anti-foreigner laws. I've already seen some crackpot suggest that all foreigners living in Poland should undergo compulsory HIV tests.

Harry said...

^ Yes the prison in Stare Kiejkuty is only speculation. Repeated landings at Szymany by CIA Gulfstream plane, N379P, and others including a 737 which flew there direct from Kabul. Staff ordered to keep away, landing fees paid in cash, military vans from nearby military base, no evidence at all!

opamp said...

The treatment of case by Fakt aside, let us take some info from the website of the police in Warsaw:

http://www.warszawa.policja.gov.pl/?page=Structure&id=8&nid=3725

Facts given in the text above:

A doctor has informed the police that he was recently visited by several young females infected with an African strain of HIV. The police questioned the women and they said that they had been infected by Simon. Simon was also tested positive for HIV. As a result, the court decided to put him under a temporary arrest for the (standard) period of 3 months, on the charge of willingly spreading HIV.

One could of course argue that the aforementioned African strain of HIV was being spread by someone else, however this does not seem very plausible.

A note on arrest in Poland. The police can arrest everyone they want for the period of 48h; it is called zatrzymanie. During this time the prosecutor office can decide whether to press the charges, and, if so, present the evidence and petition the court to
to put the suspect in areszt tymczasowy for the period of 3 months (can be later extended by the court if needed), during which time the trial is prepared.

The long periods spent by people in areszt tymczasowy in Poland result from the great ineffectiveness of courts -- the trials can take more than 3 months to begin and years to finish.

geez said...

There are no gay Poles in prison? Or no imprisoned Poles who would force sex upon a black man out of some kind of rage or whatever?

And the Church is not controlled by Radio Maria. Nor is it well represented by it. And as much as I would like to see Rydzik silenced once and for all, there are still freedom of speech issues.

How many Poles read and/or contribute to the discussion on poezja.org? How many make racist comments? All of Polish society should be condemned because of a few ignorant assholes?

geez said...

Does anyone know how many "several" young females amount to?

The fact is that he has tested positive for HIV?

The identified African strain the women have contracted is compatible with the strain the alleged perpetrator purportedly has?

Also, Harry: Some new stuff, at least for me, here. Can you provide some urls for your statement:

Yes the prison in Stare Kiejkuty is only speculation. Repeated landings at Szymany by CIA Gulfstream plane, N379P, and others including a 737 which flew there direct from Kabul. Staff ordered to keep away, landing fees paid in cash, military vans from nearby military base, no evidence at all!

Gussie Fink-Nottle said...

Here is the link to one Szymany story
.

beatroot said...

So, Simon has tested positive for HIV. He is one big trouble.

I still don't think he knew he had it...in fact, I think he is probably as shocked as everyone else.

And that is what the case is going to be about. Did he know he had it? Did he deliberatly give it to the girls?

And a note on the racism on poezja.org. This is meant to be a web site for intelligent and cultured Poles...Hmmmmm

sonia said...

Beatroot,

If what is being said is true then I am going to look very silly indeed.

Not at all. Even if Simon has AIDS and has infected others, the racism in Poland still needs to be condemned...

beatroot said...

No...Sonia...I will look stupid if Simon has being going around Warsaw, knowing he has HIV and sleeping with girls unprotected. In fact if he has HIV and has been screwing people then he is a stupid idiot. If that is true then I am going to look stupid because I simply didn't and don't believe he has done this.

Fact: he has HIV. Four girls who say that they have been with him have HIV.

Question is: did he know he had HIV? That’s now crucial.

If he did and slept with those girls then he has broken the law (I believe).

If he didn’t know he has HIV - which I am guessing he didn't (I think he has been in a kind of macho state of denial about the whole thing) then he has not broken any law at all. It is not illegal to have HIV.

But it does seem strange that these girls (one night stands apparently) have HIV but a girlfriend he had been with for a year does not.

Maybe it was stupid of him not to have got tested earlier. The rumours have been going around (it appears) for at least a year now.

It is going to be a difficult case to prove. But it still looks bad for African refugees in Poland.

And I do agree that all this not withstanding, the ugly racial prejudices here are revolting and widespread.

jeez said...

Maybe it was stupid of him not to get tested earlier?

Your original post, BR, sez that he is charged with lying to women who confronted him after they discovered they tested HIV-positive.

You doubt that he knew he had the disease. But you also note that the claims were appearing on those websites for about a year. I suppose he read them. If it was me, I would have been tested immediately to find out.

Maybe it was stupid of him not to use condoms if he was having sex with multiple partners (while maintaining a steady relationship of some sort with one woman)?

nemeczek said...

Harry:
Re: Bruce Robinson.
My point is that the guy is not being charged with a parking ticket violation, but with criminal negligence that resulted in many fatalities. In no civilized country a trial begins the very moment a suspect is apprehended – that would be lunacy. In EXCEPTIONAL cases the temporary arrest is required. My impression is that BR, as a foreign national, was a flight risk. Therefore, he was denied bail. And that is why he is in prison awaiting trial. Sure, he is innocent until proven guilty but detention w/o bail must be rather common in your country (whatever it is) as well. Let me get this straight, in the Polish law the temporary arrest is NOT regarded as a punishment for a crime. As you have not identified the other inmates (“locked up for up to 9 years w/o a trial”), I will treat this bit as an urban legend.

steppx said...

HIV tests are notoriously unreliable.....just a fact to be noted here. False positives are quite common....as are false negatives (which, logically, are harder to take note of). So when I hear so much in this case being talked about with such certainty....he *IS* HIV positive....I worry a bit. Who tested him>? Does anyone know...? Im just curious. I suspect much more will come out of this story and I have a hunch he is pretty much innocent. Just a hunch, mind you. I agree with michael that its strains credibility that he went around intentionally infecting girls...(and yes, not that easy)...or even with craven carelessness. I just have a hard time buying it.

nemeczek said...

Beatroot:
In your blog you asked the question if SM lied about his HIV status. Now you know the answer to it. This should help you find answers to the remaining questions. So, now the upgraded story goes like this... OK, he is HIV positive but prior to his arrest he did not know about it. Sorry, but it abuses peoples’ intelligence. Let me set the scene... SM’s sexual practices have been rather risky for many years (unprotected sex, multiple partners, etc.). His former girlfriend informs him that he has HIV (she knows it, after all, he gave it to her). Ha calls her a racist (see a poignant interview with SM’s first victim in Gazeta Wyborcza, http://monar.info.pl/News-article-sid-1035.html (in Polish only)) and asks her to bugger off. The story repeats itself three more times with different women. SM does not lose any sleep over it. Still, on his website he says ‘I am not HIV positive’. Put yourself in his shoes? What would you do? If I where him, I would get tested in an instant after the very first woman tested positive. And I would not have been so firm in my statements (‘I think, I am not HIV positive’ would have sounded OK to me given the circumstances. Or simply give no comment). Why didn’t he get tested? Is it conceivable that he already KNEW the result? As you mention, a few months ago SM wrote on his website that ‘as an activist, I know I have set myself on the firing line’. To me, it looks like a pre-emptive strike. His past was finally catching up with him. But he is no martyr.
I am not going to join the debate on Polish racism/xenophobia, as it has nothing to do with the story and is disrespectful to SM’s innocent victims (why not write a piece about them – just to keep the balance). Besides, this debate is a trench war with no converts or winners.

nemeczek said...

steppx:
The court ordered SM to be HIV tested.
As to HIV tests being ‘notoriously unreliable'... a quote from Wikipedia (the references can be found at source) “According to scientific consensus, the accuracy of serologic testing has been verified by isolation and culture of HIV and by detection of HIV RNA by PCR, which are widely accepted "gold standards" in microbiology. While the AIDS dissidents focus on individual components of HIV testing, it is generally believed that the combination of ELISA and Western Blot used for the diagnosis of HIV is remarkably accurate, with very low false-positive and -negative rates as described above. The vast majority of scientists believe that the views of AIDS dissidents are based on highly selective analysis of mostly outdated scientific papers; there is broad scientific consensus that HIV is the cause of AIDS”.

nemeczek said...

Jannovak57 wrote:
"Whatever the outcome of the legal process, exoneration or prosecution Simon M. can hold his head high as one of the people not accused of collaboration with the Communist-era secret police. Perhaps Archbishop Stanislaw Wielgus would like to trade places with him."
Is this going to be SM's defense or are we digressing again? If I were SM I would keep my head rather low...

beatroot said...

Niemeczek
It wasn’t me talking about the 9 years thing.

I am from London. There police must present a case for arrest in a few days. For a terrorist suspect there is a different law and that is 28 days.

I am not saying that there should be enough evidence to take to court, but enough evidence to formally charge someone of a crime.

In this country Police have seemingly unlimited time to keep someone locked up without sully committing themselves to prosecute.

That’s a bit third world justice….

beatroot said...

Nemeczek said:
In your blog you asked the question if SM lied about his HIV status. Now you know the answer to it.

No I don't know whether he lied about his status. Do we know that he knew his status?

In the first post I said that assumptions are being made about his MOTIVE...the law is all about what he intended to do. He appears to be accused of intentionally
infecting people.

Where is the evidence for that?

beatroot said...

Nemeczek
You say putting this in a race context is disrepectful to his victims. I feel very sorry for them, like I would anyone who got sick like that, but did he rape them? Was there no consent?

And if you think that this subject has no race element then I think you are being intellectually dishonest.

nemeczek said...

Beatroot:
The girls consented to what? Surely not to having sex with an HIV-infected man. And I do not care about his race. Neither does the law. Please read the Wyborcza article and you will see how this guy was skillfully playing the race card with the young girls. The public outrage is a bit more vocal and venomous than usual because this guy is black – you are spot on here. But if the guy were white, very many people would still be calling for his execution (just as they did a few days ago when a five year old girl was found murdered). The fact that SM is an African should not make lesser victims of these poor girls.

Harry said...

OK people, the nine year quote? That is from the Foundation for Social Responsibility's website: "Some of his cellmates have been held under temporary arrest without trial for as long as 5 years, with a Polish record for temporary arrest without trial being 9 years."
http://www.fcsr.pl/fcsr_eng_newslettery_109.html

If any of you would like to argue with the facts presented by this notoriously left-wing website then please do so.


CIA prisons here? Ask that well-known bastion of left-wing liars, the BBC: "CIA landings

After a week of meetings in smoky Warsaw restaurants and coffee bars with Polish intelligence sources, airport workers and journalists, I obtained what I had been looking for, and something that nobody in authority wanted to reveal, the flight log of planes landing at Szymany airport.

They confirmed my eyewitness's account - that a well-known CIA Gulfstream plane, the N379P, had made several landings at the airport in 2003.

The plane has been strongly linked to the transportation of al-Qaeda terrorists.

Another plane, a Boeing 737, had flown direct from Kabul to this remote Polish airport."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6212843.stm


beatroot said...
This is meant to be a web site for intelligent and cultured Poles...Hmmmmm

To be honest I think that there is almost no such thing as the intellectual and cultured Pole. The number of Poles I have met in more than ten years here could be counted on the fingers of one mutilated hand. Sorry but for every single Pole I know who will treat every person equally regardless of skin-colour, religion and sexual-orientation, there are 100 who will not.


Now nemeczek, you're a Pole and you obvoiusly love your country and you clearly think that your country can do no wrong (apart from invading a country and taking part in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians - but hey! You guys got to go to the USA without visas in exchange for that! Oh, sorry, you didn't. My mistake.) But here are the facts: Bruce Robinson's lawyer was repeatedly excluded from court. Your beloved state broke not only its own rules but EU rules to deny Bruce a lawyer when it suited your state. Documents from the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg reveal three cases in which suspects were held for over six years on 'temporary arrest'. Now, let me get this straigh: in the free world (i.e. not the USA or the UK in recent times, or in your beloved Poland during at least 50 of the last 60 years, the times when so many of your countrymen were doing nothing at all to help the Nazis or the Communists and thus 95% of Polish men must have been asleep) being locked up for years on end without being given any kind of trial, let alone a free trial, is generally regarded as punishment for no crime. You can regard imprisonment without trial as any damn thing you want but I somehow feel that until you are yourself locked up for a crime you did not commit, you won't quite get the point here. And let's not forget, one person who was inside the hall when the roof came down swears blind that the floor collapsed before the roof came down. http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/01/30/poland.collapse0930/index.html Of course the person who made such slander on the Polish coal-mining industry in an area where building regularly slide into holes left by our brave boys in the pits was not a Pole (and so automatically an untermenschen to you) and probably either black or Jewish (Belgium being a well-known den of blacks and Jews).


Good to see that you aren't going to join the debate on Poles and racism. Seeing as how you so blindy follow the place where your parents have sex, it's no doubt that you'd be on the side of the people who caved in the side of a German woman while she was giving birth after being tortured by them (check out the actions of your heroes in Bygoszcz during Krwawa Niedziela - do let me know if you want me to post a link to the autopsy photos of the woman)

nemeczek said...

Beatroot:
Martin was talking about 9 years in the slammer w/o trial – must have been watching ‘Midnight Express’...
In one of my previous posts I tried to explain what the temporary arrest was. The cops have no say in the matter (they can only keep you for 2 days). The court makes the decision based on the provided evidence. Somebody can be temporarily arrested when, based on the evidence, he or she is PROBABLY (the level of probability is set here to very high) guilty of the crime. The time spent under the temporary arrest is deducted from the sentence (of course, if the person is convicted). My impression is that the Polish system is very similar to the British one. The only difference is nomenclature. I do not believe Poland would have been able to join the EU if her laws were outdated.

nemeczek said...

Harry:
You are absolutely right. I love my country.

Harry said...

Hey nemeczek, whether somebody (including you) is probably guilty of a crime or not is completely irrelevant. The only thing which matters is whether they have been tried and convicted. Until then it is wrong to keep them locked up.

Great to hear that you love 'your' country. Now what makes it 'your' country? The fact that your parents fucked here? How many other countries have you lived in? Is your choice to live here worth more or less than the choice of people who can and have lived in several other countries? It's a pity for you that so many other people who share with you exactly the same 'right' to call Poland their country are racist sexist homophobic scatmunchers, and how many of them also want to get the hell out of Poland and have jobs anywhere else where they can eat shit and earn more money than they would make in Poland. Me, I love what Poland could be, and I hate a lot of what it is. This matter is a very very good example of what I'm talking about: one of the heads of your oh so fucking precious church admits to having collaborated with the dictators who ran the country; your senior politicians laugh about raping women while themselves abusing women; your senior leaders maintain policies aimed at surpressing homosexuals while hiding their own sexuality; your society is based on lies and jealousy. And you love it. As you yourself say.

Gussie Fink-Nottle said...

Harry,

Amen to your comments.
The fact that my parents fucked in Poland does not make me closer Nemeczek than to you, nor does it blind me to the fact that
people in UK, Canada, Germany, Holland, Chech Republic etc. are generally more tolerant and have a much better idea about democracy and a just society than my compatriots.

opamp said...

Somebody can be temporarily arrested when, based on the evidence, he or she is PROBABLY (the level of probability is set here to very high) guilty of the crime.

This is incorrect.

Temporary arrest is used when: (a) there is convicing evidence that the subject is probably guilty and (b) there is a risk that the suspect could manipulate the witnesses before and during the trial. There is a lot of cases when the temporary arrest is not applied. Note that both the application and the extension of the temporary arrest is the decision of the court, not the police.

It is well known however that Polish justice system is grossly ineffective and that one can spend years under temporary arrest given enough bad luck -- delay in the start of the trial and the trial going on for years. Polish government notoriously looses in Strasbourg over that.

opamp said...

No I don't know whether he lied about his status. Do we know that he knew his status?

We know that his partner informed him that she was HIV positive. That implies he knew from her that he could (at least) be HIV-positive while having sex with other women. Now -- he claimed he was immune to HIV because he was circumsized, but I doubt the court will buy that. I, at least, don't, since there was no reason not to get tested anyway.

He is not accused of lying about being HIV positive as you suggest; the actual charge is like: "causing a significant health harm by knowingly spreading HIV".

opamp said...

Great to hear that you love 'your' country. Now what makes it 'your' country?

No, the fact that I hold a passport of that country. I am free to waive it and move to another coutry if I wish. As long as I have it however, I owe the loyalty to that country.

The fact that your parents fucked here?

If I had a passport of every country my parents fucked in, I would be a world citizen (or, a full of hubris cosmopolitan swine lecturing others about national identify if we bring this discussion to your level).

Yeah, the government sucks, the Church is morally corrupt -- so fucking what? Neither the country nor the nation are defined by these.

Gussie Fink-Nottle said...

Great to hear that you love 'your' country. Now what makes it 'your' country?

No, the fact that I hold a passport of that country. I am free to waive it and move to another coutry if I wish. As long as I have it however, I owe the loyalty to that country.


Buhahaha. Identifying the country and the state! And then claiming that loyalty is due to the latter. No doubt a sentiment expressed by many decent Germans in the 1930's. By the same arguments, only those citizens of the PRL, who did not have a passport, where excused from loyalty to the communist regime.

Gussie said...

Should have, of course, been "were", not "where" in the last line.

Gussie Fink-Nottle said...

The great news is that one can already see on the horizon the end of the nation-state. This ridiculous concept really arose only in the 19th century and in its short existence probably caused as much suffering as religion did in the course of two millennia.

Anonymous said...

The "Compassionate Left" in action.

But he's a poet! Poets are only lovable, well-meaning people who share joy with everyone.

Sick pervert. They just hate women, don't they?
On second thought, I think they hate everybody.


Guys like this need to be hanged like Saddam was.

Ps: I wander if you will mmantain this comment

beatroot said...

Listen, You might want to puke your bile all over my blog but I am not going to censor your bullshit. The best way to deal with guys like you is to leave that kind of comment in place and let its moronic qualities dangle in the wind....

Do you think I am scared of opinions like yours? Don't flatter yourself...

Harry said...

^ Quite right beatroot. The price of freedom (in particular freedom of speach) is that people are free to be morons (and, in the case about your comment, make moronic comments).

Anonymous said...

Multiracialism under different names and slogans and in different legal forms has for decades provided the intellectual fodder for leftist intellectuals forced to abandon Communism.

The guy who infected the girls was a radical leftist and deserves his faith.

Communism =100 million victims

Anonymous said...

What bothers me is that is several of my sexual partners had told me they were positive - I'd be testing to see if they had infected me!

Either way- it's a very reckless attitude to have about HIV. (Which, of course, does not at all speak to the issue of intention or the charges against him).

Harry said...

Anonymous said...
Multiracialism under different names and slogans and in different legal forms has for decades provided the intellectual fodder for leftist intellectuals forced to abandon Communism.


Not quite: communism (in it's pure form) is a classless stateless society based on common ownership of the means of production and something very clearly would never work. Multiculturalism is the idea that society should consist of many cultural groups and that all of these groups should enjoy equal status and protection. I personally would not like to see a society where the state itself is multicultural (democracy has no official ideology and should cross all social groups).

But I do understand how concepts like this can be rather difficult for people like you to grasp, as you see everything only in terms of white and black (black also includes Jews to you no doubt).

Anonymous said...

Shut your gob leftist pig.
I´m jewish myself!

Harry said...

Now anonymous, I'm not sure that your post above is quite what the owner of this blog wanted when he set up the comments page.

By the way: it is even less accurate to describe me as leftist than it is to call me English. But I suppose that some people do like to see things in terms of right and left, just as they love to see things in terms of white people and untermenschen.

Anonymous said...

What is all this 'refugee' nonsense that European governments so readily accept?

I suggest the EU send all of these useless sponges back on the next plane.

Harry said...

^ Just as was done with all the Poles who wanted refugee status from 1939 to 1991 yes? Just as the Poles were sent back the Poles can send back.

Face facts: running away is a fine old Polish tradition. You've always been given a warm welcome in the places you ran away to, why not give a warm welcome to the people who decide that Poland is the place that they want to run away to?

There are some 15 million to 20 million people living outside Poland who are of Polish origin. When there are more than 20 million people living inside Poland who are not of Polish origin then we can talk about sending people back where they came from.

Augustus Fink-Nottle said...

harry said...

^ Just as was done with all the Poles who wanted refugee status from 1939 to 1991 yes? Just as the Poles were sent back the Poles can send back.


Waste of time. Being patriotic means never having to use logic.

Anonymous said...

Racism and xenophobia in Poland happen. True. But bear in mind that foreigners, including Afroamericans, are also very often admired and loved here. Why Simon Mol had so many friends and girlfriends? He attracted people.
According to the latest data (from media of course) four girls told him: I have HIV, you gave it to me. He told them to fuck off and said they were racists! Because they dared to say the truth.
Therefore it cannot be any kind of surprise for him now! He was alarmed and it did not stop him from seeing other girls.
It is a crime. Spreading such disease it is a crime.
Of course, maybe during the trial we will learn something different.I wish but unfortunately it seems so unlikely...
Read this if you understand Polish:
http://www.gazetawyborcza.pl/1,75480,3846291.html
Sad thing is that Simon's case will not help many black people living in PL. Because of his (alleged)cruelty,they will have problems in daily life.
Also shocking is the fact that he used racism as a weapon. You insist on wearing condom? You are racist.You are saying I have HIV? You are racist. You are arresting me? You are all bunch of racists. It was very nasty manipulation.Manipulation towards those who absolutely are not racists. And he did a really good job.
So many people trusted him and were involved in his activities in PL. So many people wanted to work with him, be with him...

Anonymous said...

Guys,seriously I mean the country in EU dont have medical requirements to live?? was very funny and disturbing to me when i got my resident card in Poland while in usa and to the whole western world they do require a medical test before they grant you a refugee or immigrant status.
They are granting resident status to people from the third world countries and refusing people from Australia, Uk and Usa to immigerate to Poland and stay there ...go figure>>>
Do ya math guys freaking poles have there own law confused they want hungry people to immigrate and let the people who will bring them money to there country to stay out...POLES! DO YA MATH...
Looks SM teaches you something I wanted to immigrate to poland once after my refusal to stay there for more then 3 mths i took my baggage to France at least they know there laws and country.Good luck poles.....

Anonymous said...

to be honest i think he did infect them, he could have just written the whole "i was with my girlfriend for a whole yr and she wasnt infected with hiv" as a story.
Because he knows for a fact he did it and he infected the girls
by the way...Why did they allow him in poland?

Anonymous said...

Fast forward:

The "racist" Polish press was correct. Europe for Europeans, it will be Polska saving Europe's ass from outsiders yet again

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