Yes, he is trying to hold the fragile coalition government ‘to ransom’…but most of the criticisms of the leader of Samoobrona are motivated by good old fashioned snobbery.
On Saturday Andrzej Lepper, deputy PM and Minister of Farming, said he thought that ‘there would be an election next year’ but it would not be him that would be calling it. He implied that Law and Justice, which leads the coalition, were the ones that were planning an early election.
Last week, however, Lepper was threatening to leave the coalition if the government didn’t come up with extra funds for farmers – who make up much of his constituency – who are suffering from a poor harvest and flooding after the summer’s extreme weather conditions.
So what’s going on?
The simple truth is that both sides are playing coalition politics, with all the bluff and counter-bluff of a poker player with a weak hand.
Lepper is trying to get an increase in public spending – high spending and state intervention were premised in his party’s manifesto. Samoobrona are unfashionably unreconstructed Soviet style socialists.
But they have never hid that.
Lepper also knows that the threats of leaving the coalition do not carry much weight. He knows that to bring down the government he needs the support of opposition Civic Platform (PO). But PO failed to support the no confidence vote in parliament earlier this year – waiting instead for the government to fail more spectacularly and so boost their position in the opinion polls. A vague tactic very characteristic of their vague opposition to date.
Civic Platform, the ‘middle class party’ in Poland, have also made great play of the Kaczynski government making coalition pacts with Lepper, someone they regard as ‘a criminal’ – pointing to his various arrests when he was a trade union rabble rouser in the mid 1990s.
Snobbery Platform
That view of Lepper plays well with many voters in Poland. Look at this comment about him by a Pole on a Ukrainian forum:
‘He is a very clever person and his extremely populist and socialist slogans attract uneducated voters, mainly peasants. In foreign policy he is very pragmatic, and will talk to anyone and everyone, including such rogue states as Belarus and North Korea.
He is a very autocratic leader. His party consists of many former lower ranked communists and some MPs who not finish elementary school [15 yrs old]. But party members are just pawns to him.
I consider him to be fifth columnist in the Polish government.’
Note the stinking snobbery of that comment. He attracts ‘peasants’, the uneducated, fools who follow his self-serving political maneuvering. Samoobrona voters are just dupes and his party members are just pawns to be pushed around.
But it could also be argued that he is as self serving as Civic Platform have been – except that he has simply been much more effective at it.
Civic Platform have failed to form an effective opposition to the present government. They have refused to enter the coalition, which means that smaller, more extreme parties like Lepper’s or Giertych’s far-right LPR have had much more influence on government policy than their size in parliament warrants.
But instead of representing the interests of their voters, Civic Platform, led by Donald Tusk, have sat on the sidelines, sneering down their noses at Lepper and Samoobrona.
If I was a Lepper voter I would be much more pleased with my vote than if I had voted for Civic Platform.
Lepper is simply representing the interests of his constituency. That’s what politicians are meant to do.
Leaving the coalition would do Lepper little good. Better, probably, to stay in and try and blackmail the government into spending more.
That’s what he promised to do during the elections. Civic Platform promised to form a coalition with the Law and Justice. They have failed. Lepper may be seen by many as a much more honest a politician than someone like Donald Tusk.
24 comments:
Lepper may not be many things --
suave, pleasant, diplomatic. But he certainly is a good politician in the Polish environment and he knows how to play the game. He keeps his party members mostly in order and he knows which buttons to press for his constituency. Good thing that group is not too big, otherwise we would be in some real trouble.
And you're right. The Civic Platform is trying to be to civil and doesn't seem to get its hands dirty with some real politiking out there. The latest poll in Platform-friendly Wyborcza has them ahead of Kaczynski and Co., but they seem to be on track to losing another one, whenever the election is called.
His blackmail worked too beatroot - yesterday Finance Minister Kluza announced that BOTH the Education Ministry (Giertych's) and the Agricultural Ministry (Lepper's) would be getting extra money from the budget. At the same time, Kluza announced that budget revenues will miraculously come in at zl.212.2 billion instead of zl.209 billion, keeping the deficit at the magic zl.30 billion - so I guess he won.
But this is wrong:
Lepper is simply representing the interests of his constituency.
He's not representing the interests of his constituency, he's representing their opinions and desires. Those are two very different things. If he represented their interests, then why didn't he favor EU membership from the very beginning?
Secondly, the bluff that he made about leaving government may be fair political play - but it's hardly responsible. Keeping the country in a constant state of political uncertainty is not representing the interests of his voters either. Indeed, he makes this bluff every time he doesn't get his way "Gimme this, gimme that, or I'm leaving the coalition" - this is the only card he has to play, and eventually, somebody will call his bluff, he'll get blamed for the breakdown of government, and his party will lose out at the polls.
Finally, we could also defend Strom Thurmond - that most racist of US Senators who fought to continue segregation, for representing the "interests" (here I mean the beatroot definition of opinions and desires, since segregation certainly was not in his constituency's interest) of his constituency, as he was elected to do - but so what? Does that make his position any less wrong? Should we not criticize him because he was "representing the interests of his constituency?"
His supporters called those northern, liberal minded integrationists "snobs" too - but in reality, they just disagreed with their political ideas. It's interesting that in order to find a "snobby" comment about Lepper, you couldn't find one said by PO - who I've only seen criticize Lepper's economic policies, not the fact that he represents his constituents.
In the end, beatroot, your argument boils down to: "Well, he may be an irresponsible crook, but he's just doing what the people who voted for him wanted."
And that's not much of a defense.
The government has extra money for education and agriculture because Poland received money from the EU. Thats ok. Thats what its there for. Isn't that right?
How do you all know Polish politics so well? Are there English sources, or do you know the Polish language that well?
TC
No, no TC, the extra money I mentioned is coming from the Polish national budget, which already includes all of the funds the EU has granted Poland for the year. The budget was set and ready to be voted upon when Lepper made his threats, and PiS got so scared that they fiddled with the numbers at the last minute to make everything work - who knows where they got the extra 3.2 billion from - it's not like Poland can just go to the EU like an ATM machine and ask for 3.2 billion whenever a populist threatens to break up the government.
Good sources for Polish political news in English can be found at Radio Polonia and the Warsaw Business Journal. The Warsaw Voice and Poland Monthly also offer political news. Sometimes it can be found on Puls Biznesu's english language site (mostly business news, but sometimes there's some politics) - and yes, I usually also read the Polish papers, listen to news reports on the Radio in Polish (Outside of Radio Polonia, Radio PiN has news in English at 9 pm), and TV newscasts in Polish (TVN24 has an English update at 8pm every evening, I believe).
But if you want the best Polish political news, I suggest you continue to read the beatroot, and of course Warsaw Station ain't half bad either. ;-)
Hi Gustav,
I do read Warsaw station. Its also a very good blog. Some of the links you have are really out there. Keep up the good work!
TC
Hi Top Cat!
Warsaw Voice is awful…but its web site was quite good but now is not.. Polish Monthly is good and has got better I think (but web site is not poor). In fact there are far too many web sites in Poland (in English) where access is restricted; subscription is the curse of the web.
Gustav - BOTH the Education Ministry (Giertych's) and the Agricultural Ministry (Lepper's) would be getting extra money from the budget.
And what’s so bad about education getting more money? Ask a teacher how much they earn. Go visit a school. Education should be funded to the hilt.
When Lepper says “"Gimme this, gimme that, or I'm leaving the coalition" he is doing what his voters out him in parliament for…to get more for them. He believes that free market capitalism is not in their interests and so do his voters. Chris is right: as a politician he beats many in the Sejm.
Just as Platform want less tax less public spending and all the rest of the Thatcher type politics. Middle class higher earners in the private sector want that.
That’s party politics.
The Strom Thurmond argument is a silly one. Racism is not objectively in anyone’s interest.
But that does get you closer to your own argument – the one you avoid. Why not say that you simply don’t like his policies? Stop playing the personality game and start talking about politics.
Which brings me back to the point. The criticism of Lepper are not political they are sneering snobbery.
There's nothing wrong per se with either the Education Ministry or the Agriculture Ministry getting more money. What's wrong is that instead of playing "good" politics (making the argument that money the government is spending on road infrastructure, or pensions, or bureaucracy, or what-have-you, would be better spent on agriculture or education), they got their way playing "bad" politics - threatening total government shutdown until the government, in effect, raised the debt level.
And it's true that Lepper is a savvy politician. How else could one man do so very little and still become deputy prime minister of a country of 38 million people?!
Just as Platform want less tax less public spending and all the rest of the Thatcher type politics.
Who's being a snob now beatroot?
The Strom Thurmond argument is a silly one.
On the contrary, it's particularly relevant, but let me put it to you several different ways so you don't dismiss it quite so flippantly next time:
From America:
-Republican advocate "staying the course" in Iraq - this argument is attacked by Democrats as wrong. And yet, amazingly, this position is exactly the one these Republicans were elected to take. Does that make the Democrats snobs?
From Britain:
-Labor decided to ban fox hunting. Those who like fox hunting attacked this position - and yet, the Labor government was elected by a majority of Brits, who overwhelmingly favored a fox-hunting ban. Are those who attack Labor for banning fox hunting snobs, because Labor was "just doing what its constituency wanted"?
From Poland:
-Some members of LPR want to make homosexuality illegal. Those who oppose them attack this position as wrong. Still, those LPR members were elected by their constituents to do exactly that. If I oppose such a policy, am I being a snob because those LPR members were elected to support it?
So why am I a snob if I oppose Lepper's policy (which admittedly, he was elected to promote), which was to land the most money for his constituency come hell or high water? Even moreso because I don't necessarily disagree with the "more money" part, but the "come hell or high water" part!
I oppose irresponsible politics in pursuit of one's political goals - regardless of whether I oppose the goals themselves. And you're right, in the case of Lepper I do oppose those goals (which I have admitted elsewhere).
So what? That doesn't mean I can't separate the two.
The criticism of Lepper are not political they are sneering snobbery
Opposing a politician's methods (rather than SOLELY his policy) is indeed politics - and it's an old political tool at that.
Would you argue that when Democrats criticized Bush for how he beat John McCain in South Carolina (calling up voters and asking "Did you know that John McCain had a black child outside of wedlock"?), that this was not a political argument? How about when Republicans criticize Democrats for their use of Political Action Committees? How much more political can you get?
I wonder if you have questioned your own motivation for supporting Lepper throughout all of this. You dismiss Lepper's dangerous antics as "just politics" and continue to call him a "socialist" rather than a populist, which he quite clearly is. Could it be that you yourself are skeptical of free-market capitalism? Loaded terminology like "Thatcherite" sure gives you away.
So is it that you really think Lepper's huffing and puffing is proper politics, or is it that you just don't like the economic ideas of those nasty Thatcherite, middle-class, flat-tax snobs that criticize him?
they got their way playing "bad" politics - threatening total government shutdown until the government, in effect, raised the debt level.
Gus, that is the way that coalition politics works. Smaller parties, once they are invited into a government, can push and push to get their way. I realize to an American this must seem like bullying etc but it is just the way that European politics works.
If PiS don’t like it then they shouldn’t have asked Samo into the government in the first place (which they would not have if Platform has done what there voters wanted them too). The situation was created by Tusk et al not Lepper.
Just as Platform want less tax less public spending and all the rest of the Thatcher type politics.
Who's being a snob now beatroot?
That was simply a political observation. Rokita and Tusk claim to be inspired by Thatcher. Conservative right wing.
Snobbery means (even in Websters dictionary) : the trait of condescending to those of lower social status
Not applicable here. You cannot be snobbish about political policies…so all those examples you give – all of which are about policy – are not applicable either.
The criticisms about Lepper – which I hear all the time - often stem from a social superiority complex by Polish liberal airheads.
Politics is about ideas and policy. Let’s stick to politics.
For instance: Lepper thinks that the Central Bank should be under political control. I agree. Why should something as vital as setting interest rates be in the hands of unelected technocrats.
Now that is a political argument.
Gus, that is the way that coalition politics works.
Forgive me for being so naive beatroot. Thank you for the lesson. But it doesn't seem like bullying, it seems like irresponsibility. And the funny thing is: The vast majority of Poles agree with me. So maybe it's not just the way European politics works after all.
If PiS don’t like it then they shouldn’t have asked Samo into the government in the first place (which they would not have if Platform has done what there voters wanted them too).The situation was created by Tusk et al not Lepper.
I know a lot of Tusk voters - I am one of those snobs, after all - and not one of them wanted PO to join that coalition with PiS, and most are very glad now that they didn't. You also strangely seem to imply that Lepper didn't try to get into the coalition, that it was all Tusks doing... or something...
As far as Tusk and Rokita claiming to be inspired by Thatcher - I wouldn't be surprised, but I've never heard it. Still, the word Thatcherite denotes a stronger relationship than "inspiration" and brings all sorts of negative associations to mind that I would argue don't apply. Rare is the politician who brags about being "Thatcherite". But the greater point is that the criticism of Lepper is coming from other sides of the political spectrum - not just the economic liberals. Pick any member of SLD, or Borowski - they all lambast Lepper, not only for his policies, but for his methods. Even PiS -still, regularly - criticizes Lepper for his behavior. The criticism isn't only coming from snobs who disagree with his economic policy.
so all those examples you give – all of which are about policy
But this is the point - Lepper's methods are policy. The policy is: I will do whatever possilbe - no matter how dishonest, no matter how damaging to the country - to get my way.
And thank you for the example argument. Here's another:
Lepper thinks that it's worth risking the country's political stability and long-term finances on an immediate handout to farmers. I disagree. Why should we give a short, small injection of funds to the very group of people who have benefitted most from EU membership, when a steady, frugal route to the euro zone would give higher benefits in the long term not only to the farmers, but also to the rest of the population?
And to answer yours:
#1. Because politicians are rarely economists - and the setting of interest rates to ensure maximum prosperity for all requires a knowledge of economics rather than politics.
#2. Because leaving the setting of interest rates up to the political winds of change creates an unstable market, which worsens economic conditions for the populace.
#3. Because experience has shown that unelected technocrats - when left independent from political intervention - can enact a rate-setting policy that leads to prolonged economic prosperity.
The vast majority of Poles agree with me. So maybe it's not just the way European politics works after all.
Poles agree with what? And just because Poles agree with ….whatever does not change the reality of coalition governments. That’s the way it works here. Poland does not have the oh so dull system of two moronic parties as in the US. Coalition governments mean by definition power sharing. Fact. Get used to it.
I know a lot of Tusk voters - I am one of those snobs, after all - and not one of them wanted PO to join that coalition with PiS,
That’s either a fabrication or you know some very stupid people. Everyone who voted PO, and everyone who voted PiS, expected a coalition between Platform and Law and Justice. Platform voters expected that they would be the majority party – as the opinion polls told them right up to polling day.
And they were wrong.
To claim that no PO voter wanted them to join a coalition with PiS is nonsense. You just made that up. If PO voters didn’t want PO to form a coalition with PiS then who did they think they would form a coalition with? LPR? SLD? They couldn’t form a government by themselves because with 25% of the vote is not possible in a proportional representation system (another exotica to Americans) to form a government. Every government since 1989 in Poland has been a coalition and everyone knows that parties have to form coalitions to form governments.
Rare is the politician who brags about being "Thatcherite".
Bullshit. Thatcher is one of the most respected politicians EVER in Poland. She was the ‘iron lady’ who, with the help of the Hollywood actor, helped ‘smash’ communism. Talk to a few Poles about it. That’s what they think.
I am going to leave the interest rates thing for another time.
Poles agree with what?
That Lepper is acting irresponsibly - That his are not just everyday politics. I am not singular in my opinion of the way he conducts his politics - his methods are well known and criticized, and they're a major, if not the biggest reason the vast majority of Poles have never voted for Mr. Lepper.
This man literally goes to farmers and hands money out to them. Is that everyday politics in Poland? Maybe so. Should we "get used to it"? I don't think so. I think we ought to be critical of it. And I don't think it's snobbery to do so.
... Everyone who voted PO, and everyone who voted PiS, expected a coalition between Platform and Law and Justice. ...
Want and expect are two different things beatroot. Before the vote, I would say they would have "approved of" a coalition with PiS - nothing more.
And you seem to have slept through the negotiations. Remember those? Once the negotiating got started, it was clear to me, and to every PO supporter, that not only would a coalition between the two be highly undesirable, but untenable. Ultimately it was impossible. Most PO suppporters I knew were glad to see PO go into opposition at that point.
Did you know PO supporters who were sad their party didn't join up with those loons?
BR: Poland does not have the oh so dull system of two moronic parties as in the US. Coalition governments mean by definition power sharing. Fact. Get used to it.
___
Moronic yes, but why dull? And there is at least some stability in a two party system which is rarely so with the case of coalition governments. ISTM that power sharing rarely does anything but splinter and weaken a government. And from what I know about Lepper based on what I've read, he's more a demagogue than a genuine populist.
IIRC both PiS and PO ran on the platform of a coalition with each other. As Beat has pointed out, that gained PiS some votes from people who were worried about the less well off (to temper PO's economic pragmatism with some charity).
Pretty soon after the election it became clear that neither party much wanted a coalition and nothing very definitive has ever emerged as to why. PiS says it bent over backwards to accomodate PO but the Kaczynskis don't seem like the kind to bend-over-backwards for _anyone_ (except themselves) to me.
I think the unexpected election victory went to the Ducks' heads and they began almost immediately toying with some of their worse ideas about getting back at their enemies (anyone who's ever challenged them or not been ideologically pure enough) and ideologically reshaping the country into a fortress of patriotism, church attendance and strong family values at the expense of anything else.
Officially PiS and PO were close on social and fiscal matters with the difference more on emphasis than overall plan.
But in reality, the Kaczynskis and LPR are very close in social objectives while they're very close to SO in economic terms, sort of social reactionary socialists (worst of all possible combinations for a secular fiscal moderate like me who likes the past but doesn't want to live there or obsess about it at the expense of the future).
Meanwhile many of Polands best and brightest are just moving away and the government has no idea how to get them back (hint: appealing to the patriotic feelings of the ambitious is a waste of time).
Steppx:
Is reactionary rhetoric typical of me, or is my rhetoric typically reactionary? In any case, that's the first time i've been associated with that label - I must be doing something right.
Handing out money as Lepper did, to anybody - whether they be farmers or the corporate rich, is wrong, and ought to be criticised. And this is the point.
BR says that to criticize Lepper is not politics, and is motivated by snobbery. He justifies this by saying that Lepper is doing just what his constituency wanted.
I countered that criticizing a politician, despite them doing just what their constituency wants, is valid, and demonstrated how criticism of Lepper can be #1 a political argument, and #2 motivated by political concerns, rather than snobbery.
The closest BR comes to countering the above points is: The criticisms about Lepper – which I hear all the time - often stem from a social superiority complex by Polish liberal airheads
Which may be true - but that does not change the fact that criticisms about Lepper are also often legitimate.
Since you criticize Lepper yourself Steppx, I think you probably agree with me. Aren't Lepper's anti-Semitic statements irresponsible? Is it snobbery for us to say so?
Once again: I'm not defending PO, or liberal airheads. I'm defending criticism of Lepper as A LEGITIMATE POLITICAL ARGUMENT.
So far as I can tell, no one has countered that claim.
Mike is right that when people voted last time they expected a coalition between PiS and PO – they expected that one would moderate the other. A PiSPO coalition would be every much like the last right wing government here in its complexion.
That didn’t happen and moderates on both sides feel shafted.
Enter Samoobrona and LPR.
Gustav – What I am saying is that most of the criticisms aimed at Lepper by PO types are basically personal in nature. Try and get them to enter into a political argument and they are not very good at it.
Giving money to less well off people is cool with me – it’s called redistribution of wealth and that is exactly what Lepper is in politics to do.
Anti-Semite? Yes he is. He is from that wing of the old communist party.
As far as interest rates go…Britain has only had independent Monetary Council since 1997. It didn’t affect UK growth at all having the finance ministry set rates. Interest rates are a political matter and should be debated politically by unaccountable people who we can get rid of if we choose.
Having technocrats setting rates gives the impression that the ‘market’ is somehow a natural phenomenon, like hurricanes, which is outside our control. Giving power to unselected people depoliticizes economics. And that further depoliticizes public life – something I am very much against.
The problem with Lepper is that he wants to divide the pie before it is baked. First you bake a pie and try to make it as large as possible. Only then you can start dividing it...
Step: I find myself supporting many of lepper's positions in the same weird way I support much of pat buchanon in the US.
I have the same uncomfortable experience, Step. Which just shows you that politics post cold war has changed....something that ahistorical analysis doesn't seem to take in to account.
Sonia - I agree. That's why we need high growth economics to create more pie. Unfortunatly, with a kind of 'green' consensus emerging, high growth economics is now uncool.
"First you bake a pie and try to make it as large as possible. Only then you can start dividing it..."
Welcome to Poland, Sonia. A large percentage of Lepper's constituents are real, live peasants (I'm using the term descriptively not pejoratively) who don't see it that way.
Like peasants the world over, there's a tendency to see the pie as having a fixed size that can't change.
Therefore the goal is to get as much of it as possible to keep your rivals from getting it and taking your slice too.
In socio-anthropology (IIRC) this theory is referred to as the "limited good".
Since urban Poles are generally only a generation or two from peasant stock, the idea is found there as well as throughout the political system.
In those terms, it's as good an explanation as any for the failure of the PiS/PO coalition before it began. Both sides were looking at the coalition in terms of what they would _lose_ instead of in terms of what they could _gain_.
BR: ... we need high growth economics to create more pie. Unfortunatly, with a kind of 'green' consensus emerging, high growth economics is now uncool.
_____
The key question here is what kind of growth? Clearly, not all growth is beneficial. . . unless you want to be a cheerleader for a variety of cancers, medical and analogical.
And what constitutes "high growth economics" The Civic Platform folk argue their way and others completely different.
Seems there's a pressing need to get beyond party labels and ideologically-driven endless platitudes. But can that be accomplished when most folks just boob-out to TV?
I would defend lepers too! I just thought that doing a positive Lepper post would be more interesting than another Lepper-bashing one. I also think that Civic Platform have been awful in opposition.
And of course you are right, Ignacy, high growth needs to be positive growth. But high growth is uncool at the moment, even among our exalted leaders. Caution has taken over the capitalist class!
But high growth is good and has dragged many more out of poverty in China and India than a thousand western NGOs have ever done.
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