tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post6370382229710469957..comments2024-03-20T10:19:56.838+01:00Comments on the beatroot: Poland to ban smoking in public?beatroothttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-56995123902673897512010-01-27T20:19:21.541+01:002010-01-27T20:19:21.541+01:00[url=http://www.friendface.org/pg/profile/buy_augm...[url=http://www.friendface.org/pg/profile/buy_augmentin]augmentin doses[/url] A small number of lectures may be desirable to introduce topics or provide an overview of difficult subject material in conjunction with the PBL scenarios. [url=http://www.netknowledgenow.com/members/buy_5F00_bactrim.aspx]bactrim sinus infection[/url] Further guidance on how to design web based assessments for online courses can be found at www.ltsn.ac.uk and www.ltss.bris.ac.uk [url=http://srandolph.communityserver.com/members/Buy-Cialis.aspx]Cialis libidus[/url]Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-38222281875229226522008-05-14T19:34:00.000+02:002008-05-14T19:34:00.000+02:00I don't smoke, ( Anymore ), however I feel that th...I don't smoke, ( Anymore ), however I feel that the smokers have been given a raw deal. I understand that non-smokers have a right not to breathe in the smoke of others however I also feel that smokers have a right to smoke, in comfort in a pub. There should be different types of pubs, those for smokers and those for non-smokers, everyone has a choice then.. or split the pubs in half with good extraction fans.<BR/>I think this government has been a little over zealous on, Environmental and health issues and are scaring people to keep them in line. The whole carbon footprint things is BolL*cks, and the proce of oil has went up to pay for the last two wars on Afganistan and Iraq... don't believe all that is on the news and in the papers.. Time to Wake up HumansAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-7114585377831036902007-06-10T14:15:00.000+02:002007-06-10T14:15:00.000+02:00So does this mean that coffee shops will be crowde...<I>So does this mean that coffee shops will be crowded out with nicotine fixers when some poor hippie is trying to roll up a joint?</I><BR/><BR/>Actually, coffeeshops tend to draw less of an elderly hippie relict crowd than you might expect. Customers are a little on the alternative side of course, but most of them are under 30 as people tend to have given up cannabis by the time they reach that age.<BR/><BR/>I don't expect coffeeshops will get flooded with smokers from next year on, for the very same reasons non-smokers are not flocking to non-smoking pubs right now: Going to the pub is a social thing that doesn't combine well with apartheid. Smokers will take the drawback of having to smoke outside or in a separate smoking cabinet for granted, just like non-smokers have been taking for granted the drawback of having to inhale the tobacco fumes until now.<BR/><BR/>The fact that the number of coffeeshops is fairly limited compared to the total number of pubs (and will remain so due to strict regulation) will aid as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-36490556276653397622007-06-10T06:56:00.000+02:002007-06-10T06:56:00.000+02:00I am with Mr Sneaky on the airport stress thing, a...I am with Mr Sneaky on the airport stress thing, and for all the same reasons. I have tried to not get stressed but do. I also have to work out when I am gonna have me last ciggie before I get on the plane. This is difficult as airports all have different rules. In Warsaw there is nowhere to smoke after you get past passport control. In Amsterdam you can smoke in the cafes. <BR/><BR/>Abd eulogist has informed me that Holland really will be banning smoke in public places from summer next year – BUT COFFEE SHOPS WILL BE EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULE!\<BR/><BR/>I thought he was joking! <BR/><BR/>So does this mean that coffee shops will be crowded out with nicotine fixers when some poor hippie is trying to roll up a joint?beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-4899662783918550202007-06-09T23:36:00.000+02:002007-06-09T23:36:00.000+02:00So. How about we'll give you all the restaurants, ...<I>So. How about we'll give you all the restaurants, pubs, and public buildings. We'll happily pay the 200%+ tax and chip in for your retirement. In exchange, you non-smokers will quit your whinning, and give us a freakin' smoke room at every airport around the world.</I><BR/><BR/>Seems reasonable to me. I am a bit surprised even that not every airport already has one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-86121482184597564812007-06-09T21:01:00.000+02:002007-06-09T21:01:00.000+02:00crazies like szu szuNever claimed to be sane, but ...<I>crazies like szu szu</I><BR/><BR/>Never claimed to be sane, but I'm still not so craaaaaaaazeee as to smoke.<BR/><BR/>Nic fixes can be had with chewing gum, patches, etc.<BR/><BR/>And there are better drugs for calming down.<BR/><BR/>Seriously, younotsneaky!, why do you like to smoke?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-76724868666007086902007-06-09T20:01:00.000+02:002007-06-09T20:01:00.000+02:00"When we ran the world, we let you have your smoke..."When we ran the world, we let you have your smoke free rooms" -- Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead.<BR/><BR/>There's a reasonable compromise to be had here but crazies like szu szu ain't having none of it now that they have the power (and my money). <BR/><BR/>Principles aside (the "business owners should be able to decide how to run their own freakin' business" one) I actually much prefer smoke free restaurants and even pubs (as long as there's a patio or something where one can sneak out for a drag without the hassle of getting back in). I like to smoke but that don't mean that I like it when I'm eating.<BR/><BR/>So. How about we'll give you all the restaurants, pubs, and public buildings. We'll happily pay the 200%+ tax and chip in for your retirement. In exchange, you non-smokers will quit your whinning, and give us a freakin' smoke room at every airport around the world.<BR/><BR/>I hate travelling by plane. Not a fear of flying or anything but the extreme frustration associated with checking in, worrying about missing a flight, being treated rudely by the airlines, standing in lines that make Poland '82 <I>kolejkas</I> look like epitomes of efficiency, the idiotic security procedure, the delays, the cramped seats, the blatant price gouging (and, as an economist, when I say "price gouging" it means I'm really serious), the masses of humanity (which is always better in small doses) and all the other things that insipired that South Park episode.<BR/>At least let me deal with all that stress and get my nic fix!YouNotSneaky!https://www.blogger.com/profile/06378267534638281151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-50339251737642115402007-06-09T18:31:00.000+02:002007-06-09T18:31:00.000+02:00Go for it - ban it in areas (inside and enclosed o...Go for it - ban it in areas (inside and enclosed outside areas) where smoking is irritating to non-smokers. I live in Britain and it's no big deal to step outside for a puff so as not to stink the place out, give others cancer, or make their clothes stink. My local is even busy now and no longer about to close - presumably because there are more non-smokers than smokers these days.<BR/><BR/>BTW: Puff - not Pouf, or your Tinky Winky police will jump on you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-69096422488634022762007-06-09T03:13:00.000+02:002007-06-09T03:13:00.000+02:00Harry you unpleasant waste of a Nazi Fucktard (I d...Harry you unpleasant waste of a Nazi Fucktard (I don't really mean anything by that other than to serve back a bit of echo): I do not have a smoking related illness. I do not live in the UK, but in the US. You live in Poland from what I've read. So either way, your taxes do not pay for my healthcare. In the US, cigarette taxes are used for all sorts of things, and not exclusively health care. I'm sure the tobacco industry has found all sorts of twits to show that second-hand smoke isn't a health hazard. Common sense tells most people otherwise. Nonetheless, thank you for not wanting to ban me. I don't want to ban you either. Just your stinky hazardous tobacco.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-27862226538111000022007-06-08T17:59:00.000+02:002007-06-08T17:59:00.000+02:00In Italy smoking in public was banned a couple of ...In Italy smoking in public was banned a couple of years ago. We, the Italians, are not famous for obedience to law and its implementing. But guess what? we simply aren't smoking in public anymore, and much less in private. May be I oversimplify the problem because I quit smoking many years ago, errr..John Gerard Sapodillahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01960580577879870217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-86818367624064305802007-06-08T16:04:00.000+02:002007-06-08T16:04:00.000+02:00"the Nazi reference was due the Nazi government of..."the Nazi reference was due the Nazi government of Germany being the first government to ban smoking tobacco"<BR/><BR/>Reductio ad Hitlerum, huh? So let's not build highways in Poland, because Hitler was the first to build them in Germany. <BR/><BR/>What a dumb argument.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-70141989272955265282007-06-08T15:20:00.000+02:002007-06-08T15:20:00.000+02:00^ If you don't want me to kill you by us sharing t...^ If you don't want me to kill you by us sharing the same room, don't come into the rooms where I'm smoking. Pretty fucking simple really. I don't think that I have the right to smoke in every room, why do you have the right to tell me what to do in every room we might both be in?<BR/><BR/>But that's even if we agree that my smoking in the same room as you kills you. The man who published the first research which linked primary smoking to cancer, Professor Sir Richard Doll, says that 'The effects of other people smoking in my presence are so small it doesn't worry me.' Why might he say that? Maybe because the World Health Organisation published research from a seven-year international study showing that a non-smoker's chances of getting lung cancer is 0.01% and that a non-smoker who constantly breathes other people's smoke has a 0.01165% chance.<BR/><BR/>Piss Piss: in the UK smokers pay £7 billion in tax. The NHS spends £1.5 billion treating "smoking-related" illness. Poland will be much the same but I can't be arsed to dig out the figures. Fact is that you are having healthcare which is paid for by the taxes on my cigarettes. It's fine for you to consider smoking to be exceedingly unpleasant and a waste of resources, I think that you are exceedingly unpleasant and a waste of resources. The difference is that I'm not trying to ban you and I don't need to lie in order to support my case.<BR/><BR/>eulogist: the Nazi reference was due the Nazi government of Germany being the first government to ban smoking tobacco.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-69911735570863694562007-06-08T13:56:00.000+02:002007-06-08T13:56:00.000+02:00And let's call them, in the memory of Kurt Vonnegu...<I>And let's call them, in the memory of Kurt Vonnegut Jr., "Ethical Suicide Parlors."</I><BR/><BR/>I have news for you: Living kills you too. <BR/><BR/>I have no moral issues with smoking. I just have moral issues with smokers insisting they have the right to kill me when we happen to share the same room.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-66673275739119852732007-06-08T13:38:00.000+02:002007-06-08T13:38:00.000+02:00no objection to the establishment of limited numbe...<I>no objection to the establishment of limited numbers of special 'smoking café's' after the example of the Dutch 'coffeeshops' for cannabis smokers</I><BR/><BR/>And let's call them, in the memory of Kurt Vonnegut Jr., "Ethical Suicide Parlors."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-46045218499295996352007-06-08T13:35:00.000+02:002007-06-08T13:35:00.000+02:00you gonna gimme back my tax money?Yes, if you agre...<I>you gonna gimme back my tax money?</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, if you agree to a complete ban on smoking in public places, a ban on all tobacco adverstising, and remove yourself from my having to pay for any of your health care benefits.<BR/><BR/>C'mon. Why are you guys so adamant about something you know is killing you and increasing others' health risks as well?<BR/><BR/>Smoking:<BR/><BR/>It stinks. It's dirty.<BR/><BR/>It profits a few and victimizes many. <BR/><BR/>It's an addiction. It's infantile. It's narcissistic. It's masochistic. It's suididal.<BR/><BR/>At least be like the Beatroot and be embarrased by it. That's the first step to recovery.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-18678127862805587952007-06-08T11:16:00.000+02:002007-06-08T11:16:00.000+02:00At present if you are found to be in the habit of ...<I>At present if you are found to be in the habit of consuming a poisonous substance by choice a judge could order you confined to a mental institution for your own protection consequently the “liberty” argument is rather weak.</I><BR/><BR/>That depends - if it is just poison, perhaps. But if it is poison that also gives pleasure (like tobacco, alcohol, cannabis or other drugs) using it should be permitted.<BR/><BR/><I>You can have half of all spaces: but no more than half. How about equality?</I><BR/><BR/>Introducing apartheid in the name of equality? Granted, that is how they used to defend it in South-Africa too. The point is however that going to the pub (like life in general, in the SA case) is a social thing. People go there to meet other people. Assuming that applies to smokers and non-smokers alike, it seems to me that asking the smokers to go outside or to a different room temporarily when they need a cigarette constitutes a rather smaller infringement on individual liberty than the alternative of expecting the non-smokers to accept premature death.<BR/><BR/>(That said, I would of course have no objection to the establishment of limited numbers of special 'smoking café's' after the example of the Dutch 'coffeeshops' for cannabis smokers)<BR/><BR/><I>Or is that not what you Nazis want?</I><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law" REL="nofollow">Godwin</A>, anyone?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-4145398621856800552007-06-08T05:55:00.000+02:002007-06-08T05:55:00.000+02:00"To start with I have to take exception to the not..."To start with I have to take exception to the notion that smokers contribute more than they consume when looking at cigarette taxes versus medical costs incurred as a consequence of smoking. The shear numbers of people ill and dieing would eat up the tax revenue rapidly."<BR/><BR/>You can take all the exceptions you want, but them's the numbers. I can try and look up the cites to some studies later but it's a pretty common finding in both medical and economic literature that we pay more than we take. Obviously that sheer number of people ill and dying, smoked a sheer number of cigarettes in their lifetime and as a result paid a sheer number of taxes and pension contributions which they won't be seeing.<BR/><BR/><I>How do you organize a pub on a half and half basis without a physical partition and separate ventilation system?</I><BR/><BR/>There are pubs in London which are smoke free, and they advertise it. Not many but some. Here (in my secret location) about half the bars let you smoke and half don't. Perfectly sensible equilibrium. Why monkey with it?<BR/><BR/>siu siu,<BR/>you gonna gimme back my tax money?YouNotSneaky!https://www.blogger.com/profile/06378267534638281151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-57910882955574726282007-06-08T04:31:00.000+02:002007-06-08T04:31:00.000+02:00Smokers die early so they never collect all the mo...<I>Smokers die early so they never collect all the money they put into Social Security.</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, please start smoking at least three packs a day and save us even more money.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-9507540355008521662007-06-08T04:24:00.000+02:002007-06-08T04:24:00.000+02:00Nazi?Well, smokers can have 1/2 the areas as long ...Nazi?<BR/><BR/>Well, smokers can have 1/2 the areas as long as they don't recieve health care that is somehow paid for by me.<BR/><BR/>And as long as the smokers provide jobs for workers who opt not to work in a smoking environment.<BR/><BR/>Otherwise, you're the fascist. And a murderer. Just like the tobacco companies that profit off people's misery. Running capitalist dogs!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-21170917681094287582007-06-08T04:20:00.000+02:002007-06-08T04:20:00.000+02:00How do you organize a pub on a half and half basis...How do you organize a pub on a half and half basis without a physical partition and separate ventilation system?<BR/>Sounds like a very costly way to operate plus what’s coming next is the whole issue of the pub’s employees and work safety legislation soon to include something like a mandatory smoke free work place.In the long term even separate will be difficult to operate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-60086355739319094902007-06-08T01:41:00.000+02:002007-06-08T01:41:00.000+02:00Hi Piss piss,Good point, why should you need to fi...Hi Piss piss,<BR/><BR/>Good point, why should you need to find another bar because some people smoke in the non-smoking area? You should not have to. If a bar owner decided his bar is non-smoking it should be non-smoking. Non-smokers can go there and smokers can not. <BR/><BR/>But why should everywhere be non-smoking? Here's the deal: you don't complain about people smoking in smoking areas and I won't complain about people whining about smokers in non-non-smoking areas. You can have half of all spaces: but no more than half. How about equality? Or is that not what you Nazis want?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-50159769964236579472007-06-08T01:40:00.000+02:002007-06-08T01:40:00.000+02:00To start with I have to take exception to the noti...To start with I have to take exception to the notion that smokers contribute more than they consume when looking at cigarette taxes versus medical costs incurred as a consequence of smoking. The shear numbers of people ill and dieing would eat up the tax revenue rapidly. <BR/><BR/>Having said that there is a Dutch study that does make the argument that not smoking or stopping smoking and living longer will amount to the same outlay of financial resources. This of course speaks to dealing with an aging body over a vastly longer life span. What it fails to address is that not smoking is the only real option as cessation of smoking is not a real option. For those who stopped smoking after a prolonged period of smoking, longer term health risks are lessened but not that dramatically as the damage is already done. This study’s conclusions were at variance with almost all other studies on the issue.<BR/><BR/>The problem lays with the inconsiderate smokers them selves who rather then exiting rapidly die a slow lingering death using up a lot of scarce medical resources in a vein hope of survival. With advances in today’s medical technologies this process is even getting longer and therefore more costly notwithstanding the end result is the same.<BR/><BR/>If this is to become an issue of individual liberty, then we must isolate this addiction’s effects only to those who consent to use cigarettes. There would be no chance of exposing anyone to second hand smoke and the smoker must pay a premium for his or her health coverage as they already do for their life insurance. Under that scenario smoke to your hearts content. <BR/><BR/>“Inhaling cigarette smoke is the closest thing to suicide other than jumping off a tall building. From a logical, reasonable, public health point of view, cigarettes should definitely be outlawed.” …….At present if you are found to be in the habit of consuming a poisonous substance by choice a judge could order you confined to a mental institution for your own protection consequently the “liberty” argument is rather weak.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-20160659133654543012007-06-08T01:29:00.000+02:002007-06-08T01:29:00.000+02:00pawel said... ooops wrong address:) here: ht...pawel said...<BR/><BR/> ooops wrong address:)<BR/><BR/> here: http://www.toruntrips.co.uk/<BR/><BR/>Hi - thx for this - have spent the last 12 months researching dental treatment - been to Poland,three times in the last 9 months)<BR/><BR/>Rip off England, (to numerous to mention - Spain - and am going to none of those:-)<BR/><BR/>I will if 'Beatroot' allows;-)<BR/><BR/>Report back on this in the next 2/3 weeks - after my escapades in another country<BR/><BR/>Love IssieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-67396325987174525022007-06-07T23:46:00.000+02:002007-06-07T23:46:00.000+02:00It’s all about money! The cost of looking after pe...<I>It’s all about money! The cost of looking after people directly and indirectly made ill from cigarettes is massive;</I><BR/><BR/>Except this isn't true, at least for US. #1 Taxes on cigs are way high.#2 Smokers die early so they never collect all the money they put into Social Security. If I remember correctly the average estimate is something like for every 50 cents in additional medical costs per smoker, the tax revenue is a dollar and then another dollar from the social security thing. So we're actually more than paying our way. We're subsidizing you intolerant, ungrateful bastards.<BR/><BR/>It could differ though by country, by cig taxes and by the pension system.YouNotSneaky!https://www.blogger.com/profile/06378267534638281151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-55109836930112797542007-06-07T23:38:00.000+02:002007-06-07T23:38:00.000+02:00Hmm, I don't know Jannovak. There seems to be rese...Hmm, I don't know Jannovak. There seems to be research suggesting the total lifetime health care cost of smokers roughly equals that of smokers because smokers die younger.<BR/><BR/>Health costs should not be an argument in issues like this because it opens a box of pandora you'd rather keep closed. What about the health costs created by all sorts of other activities or lack thereoff then? Should the state start prescribing regular exercise, healthy food etc.? As far as I am concerned, that would be way over the line of infringing on individual liberty. <BR/><BR/>The point with smoking really is not the smoker's health (it's his own choice after all), but the health damage done to non-smokers during ordinary activities (which include going to the pub).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com