tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post568968175963731647..comments2024-03-20T10:19:56.838+01:00Comments on the beatroot: What’s left of the Polish Left?beatroothttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-41017193903927253472008-04-23T17:38:00.000+02:002008-04-23T17:38:00.000+02:00Only in Poland’s sad political landscape would one...Only in Poland’s sad political landscape would one have a debate on the merits of a government of criminals and traitors. Of what possible use is the party / gang that spilt the blood of Poles on behave of a foreign master. Many of those who still find redeeming values in the PZPR and the successor party the SLD represent the mental scares still prevalent in Polish society from the long years of totalitarian darkness.<BR/><BR/>The simplest peasant in Poland understands that once your dog has turned on you club it to death and move on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-26054337677835452532008-04-23T01:21:00.000+02:002008-04-23T01:21:00.000+02:00There was also no textbook on how to take a centra...<I>There was also no textbook on how to take a centrally managed economy and transform it into a market driven one. </I><BR/><BR/>While this can be used to defend the actions of the 1989-1993 cabinets, it does not explain the economic downturn in the 1997-2001 era, when the leading economic guru decided to "cool down" the economy putting thousands of SMEs out of business. <BR/><BR/><I>No the (post-)commies didn’t know how to run a business, when it came to the governance of the country their administration was known for doing nothing therefore avoiding blame for anything.</I><BR/><BR/>The economy tends to operate better if the government is not meddling with it, so it is not a bad strategy. The fact is that under the postcommunist governments (until Marcinkiewicz/Kaczynski) the economic indicators always looked better then under the Solidarity governments. That means that they were doing a better job. It's really that simple. <BR/><BR/><I>They were masters in personal business affairs as they started the process of looting state enterprises prior to 1989</I><BR/><BR/>And the looted enterprise would usually remain operational and even - horror! - profitable. <BR/><BR/>The other option preferred to sell a factory to a German corporation, which would immediately fire everyone, close the shop, raze the facilities, and build a shopping mall (authentic example).<BR/><BR/>Not to even mention the brilliant idea of NFIs...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-6680279886803698922008-04-22T23:35:00.000+02:002008-04-22T23:35:00.000+02:00opamp said... “post-solidarity politicians were gr...opamp said... “post-solidarity politicians were grossly incompetent, and managed to crash the economy”<BR/><BR/>Yes and no. Yes the post-solidarity politicians had no experience in managing an economy or managerial experience and this caused problems. There was also no textbook on how to take a centrally managed economy and transform it into a market driven one. As a consequence there was great disruption and that was translated into huge unemployment someone would have to take it on the chin politically.<BR/><BR/>No the (post-)commies didn’t know how to run a business, when it came to the governance of the country their administration was known for doing nothing therefore avoiding blame for anything. They were masters in personal business affairs as they started the process of looting state enterprises prior to 1989 in order to position themselves in the new free enterprise based society.<BR/><BR/>opamp said... “So if you ask me, using their services was not a bad deal after all”<BR/><BR/>It wouldn’t have not been a bad idea, had we done just that used their services, but rather we gave them free rein and got a demonstration of how a kleptocracy operates.<BR/><BR/>The SLD through their actions and with no particular help from the political opposition just committed slow political suicide. The SLD’s existence was of no value to Poland. <BR/>One cannot have great expectations of a house constructed with rotten boards just because they received a fresh coat of paint.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-3183833869498614222008-04-22T22:58:00.000+02:002008-04-22T22:58:00.000+02:00beatroot said: “Poles want a social democratic, s...beatroot said: “Poles want a social democratic, secular party”<BR/><BR/>I agree with this part but that hope was killed when the apparatchiks choose to find a cloak of respectability call social democracy. This cynical move sank any hope of developing a social democratic movement early on. <BR/><BR/>Until there is a clear break with the old boys of the PRL and the public sees that to be genuine, forget social democracy. The only hope is the appearance of a leader not associated with the past and he or she very publicly cleaned house.<BR/><BR/>beatroot said: “a new centre left wing party “<BR/><BR/>It should be sinking in that it’s capitalisms that brought the material improvements and real jobs people have today. If I were a young Pole I would be likely to want capitalism’s advance over any notion of socialism as a matter of self-interest. I believe Poles are more interested in a society that values social justice and less in the labels of socialist or social democrat. Social justice is not the private preserve of the left-wingers, all be it they hold the record for misguided attempts.<BR/><BR/>Poland needs to concentrate on more GDP per capita than any thing else and that means nurturing the business sector.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-62353475016297072902008-04-22T22:31:00.000+02:002008-04-22T22:31:00.000+02:00My hats of to the PR/media genius that got this sc...<I>My hats of to the PR/media genius that got this scum elected.</I><BR/><BR/>Which would be the post-Solidarity folks. <BR/><BR/>Face it. The postcommunists weren't getting elected because of some media manipulation; they were getting elected because post-solidarity politicians were grossly incompetent, and managed to crash the economy. Twice. <BR/><BR/>The (post-)commies, on the other hand, at least knew how to run this business. <BR/><BR/>So if you ask me, using their services was not a bad deal after all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-42336009315739571252008-04-22T22:21:00.000+02:002008-04-22T22:21:00.000+02:00You just can;t blame PR scum, jan. Poles want a so...You just can;t blame PR scum, jan. Poles want a social democratic, secular party. Problem is - the main social democratic party is full of sleazebags. Consequently we get populist parties taking bits of social justice type politics but adding in weird nationalisms. That's why Poland needs a new centre left wing party.beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-27904217909166135532008-04-22T22:19:00.000+02:002008-04-22T22:19:00.000+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-11004435745255233472008-04-22T02:29:00.000+02:002008-04-22T02:29:00.000+02:00It’s so hard to be a social democrat with a straig...It’s so hard to be a social democrat with a straight face in Poland, just imagine the mental gymnastic you have to perform when your questioned on your resume which looks like this:<BR/><BR/>We were former communist apparatchiks.<BR/><BR/>We worked for a foreign occupying power.<BR/><BR/>Our origins are the PZPR whose historical claim to fame is shooting Polish workers dead in the streets and lets not forget the ones that were shoot down in the coalmines. We worked day and night to hide Poland’s true history from its people. We supervised the mechanisms of the totalitarian state to lock up tens of thousands of our fellow citizens because they wanted a trade union.<BR/><BR/>We fielded a candidate for president who was a cabinet minister in the Gen. Jaruzelski’s government.<BR/><BR/>We took over a million dollars from our friends in the Kremlin to get our party of the ground as no doubt everyone knows the Kremlin is the champion of social democracy.<BR/><BR/>We got out candidate elected to the office of president so he could show the people exactly how to pillage state resources with Poland’s most corrupt administration in it’s national history.<BR/><BR/>We provided Poland with a president that didn’t have the courage to stand in front of the graves of patriots with out getting drunk.<BR/><BR/>While in office we committed treason.<BR/><BR/>My hats of to the PR/media genius that got this scum elected.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-3559286171201383802008-04-21T23:53:00.000+02:002008-04-21T23:53:00.000+02:00Of course you are right, and it was a case of past...Of course you are right, and it was a case of pasting in acronyms ( which I always do with Polish political parties, because the initial PD is not going to be the same way round as in Polish).beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-35976729277038517372008-04-21T23:02:00.000+02:002008-04-21T23:02:00.000+02:00Marek Borowski (on right of photo, mid nose facili...<I>Marek Borowski (on right of photo, mid nose facilitation) announced that he was taking his party, Social Democracy of the Republic of Poland (SdRP) </I><BR/><BR/>Marek Borowski is from SDPL (Polish Socialdemocracy), not SdRP. SdRP was Kwaśniewski's party. <BR/><BR/>History recap:<BR/><BR/>PZPR -> SdRP + some smaller parties<BR/><BR/>SdRP + some smaller parties -> SLD(coalition)<BR/><BR/>SLD(coalition) -> SLD(party)<BR/><BR/>SLD -> SLD + SDPL<BR/><BR/>SLD + SDPL + UP + PD -> LiD<BR/><BR/>As for PD:<BR/><BR/>Solidarity -> (among others) ROAD<BR/><BR/>ROAD -> UD<BR/><BR/>UD + KLD -> UW<BR/><BR/>UW -> PO + PD<BR/><BR/>Interesting part here is that large part of PO leadership are the KLD people (Tusk, Lewandowski, Boni), while the UD people (Geremek) went to PD.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com