tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post4708362937507397024..comments2024-03-13T03:13:59.610+01:00Comments on the beatroot: Brendan Fay in Polandbeatroothttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comBlogger80125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-11253841378132933722008-04-06T00:11:00.000+02:002008-04-06T00:11:00.000+02:00Amen, anon.Nice "meeting" you and I hope you stick...Amen, anon.<BR/><BR/>Nice "meeting" you and I hope you stick around.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-57230438636282092632008-04-05T20:37:00.000+02:002008-04-05T20:37:00.000+02:00Thank you, Geez.I think it's important that we sea...Thank you, Geez.<BR/>I think it's important that we search for quiet and contemplative moments in our lives, it's like mental and spiritual hygiene. I try to combine this with the grunt work of living the decalogue and the beatitudes. For example, turning the other cheek, or being silent or not, as the situation demands, for me, is arduous work.<BR/>I completely agree with you about this lady, Joanna. Technically, she violated Article 2358 of the Catechism which advises that respect must be shown to people with same sex attraction. Also, during the interview, this person was her neighbor, and we are under a command to love our neighbors. I think she needs to apologize.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-63672405498826252372008-04-05T18:33:00.000+02:002008-04-05T18:33:00.000+02:00Sounds good anon... but some of that tradition is ...Sounds good anon... but some of that tradition is problematic and the Magisterium is mighty difficult to figure out. <BR/><BR/>I did check with one of my contemplative friends about different Catholic contemplative starins and this is what I got back for anyone who might be so interested and/or inclined:<BR/><BR/>Try Fr. Thomas Keating, one of the Trappist founders of the Centering Prayer movement. He's a very great explainer. Centering Prayer couldn't be simpler. As Fr. Keating puts it, it's simply "intending to accept the presence and action of God within". It's not Zen, but it's simple like a lot of Zen. And, Mother Angelica to the contrary notwithstanding, it is NOT a Buddhist, irreligious practice. <BR/><BR/>Here's how to do it from Fr. Menninger:<BR/>"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""<BR/> 1. Sit comfortably with your eyes closed, relax, and quiet yourself. Be in love and faith to God.<BR/> 2. Choose a sacred word that best supports your sincere intention to be in the Lord's presence and open to His divine action within you (i.e. "Jesus", "Lord," "God," "Savior," "Abba," "Divine," "Shalom," "Spirit," "Love," etc.).<BR/> 3. Let that word be gently present as your symbol of your sincere intention to be in the Lord's presence and open to His divine action within you.<BR/> 4. Whenever you become aware of anything (thoughts, feelings, perceptions, images, associations, etc.), simply return to your sacred word, your anchor.<BR/>""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""<BR/>Fr. Keating in "Open Mind, Open Heart" tells you how to handle distractions and discouragement. You cannot fail at Centering Prayer. "Intention is all." The book also explains lectio divina, which concentrates on Scripture and leads into Centering Prayer, often quite naturally. But I like CP straight :-) The most amazing thing about it (among other amazing things) is that even if you think you aren't changing for the better, people around you might tell you that you have changed! <BR/><BR/>Thomas Merton, of course, is great at explaining contemplative prayer, but he doesn't tell you how to do it.<BR/><BR/>Another popular method amongst Catholics is Fr. John Main's mantra sort of meditation. It is essentiallyy the same as a Hindu mantra practice with a Christian mantra. You focus on the word or phrase go where it takes you, or so I understand. I find it limiting. CP really concentrates wholly on God. <BR/><BR/>Adolescents sometimes like contemplative prayer, given their highly stressful young lives. Get the Keating book and let it hang about the house. You might be surprised. Yes, CP is amazingly good for stress. (All forms of contemplation are good for stress. but that's just a by-product.)<BR/><BR/>There are many non-religious forms of meditation that are good for stress and health, both mental and physical, and they can help you learn how to concentrate (not be distracted so easily). I once started to do a book about them. There's one great Buddhist practice, the Thousand Petalled Lotus, that's very good for examining your conscience, for instance. It's in the little classic on all sorts of meditation, "How to Meditate" by LeShane. But LeShane does present some problems for non-pantheists. <BR/><BR/>The classic book on meditating for physical and mental health is Dr. Herbert Benson's "The Relaxation Response". It should be taught in all high schools. He's the one who gave meditation credibility in the scientific community, though he himself is not against religious meditation at all. His sort is particularly good at relieving stress so it's wonderful for people with bad hearts. He's done some other books about his researth that are interesting, but they are not how-to books.<BR/><BR/>Finally, if you want a really scholarly book about how to distinguish genuinely religious meditation from other sorts, read R.C. Zaehner's "Mysticism: Sacred and Profane". It has convinced me (based on the writing of the mystics themselves) that some meditative practices are essentially overwhelming non-religious experiences caused by self-hypnosis, drugs, whatever, and they have nothing to do with God. Charles Manson loved those sorts. See? On the other hand, some mystical experiences are indeed "meetings with God".<BR/><BR/>Do find a practice that is good for you! You'll be most grateful to God for it. It also makes Mass more meaningful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-85952154228786801712008-04-05T13:36:00.000+02:002008-04-05T13:36:00.000+02:00Dear Geez:When you wrote "And it's also difficult ...Dear Geez:<BR/><BR/>When you wrote "And it's also difficult for me to put my faith in someone even if I think he or she is *competent* because I'm not so sure I'm *competent* to make that decision." you hit the nail on the head. In my view your caution is commendable, even more, wise.<BR/>May I suggest this: the CC rests on Tradition, Magisterium, and the Bible. Rather than latching on to one person, sample the accumulated wisdom from two millennia of Tradition. Men such as Saint Augustine and Thomas Aquinas not only wrote with precision and wisdom, they were also men of flesh and blood who didn't deny they screwed up as much as the rest of us schmucks. A plea is attributed to one of them: <BR/><BR/>"Dear God, please make me a saint, but not just yet".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-61668381211968971282008-04-05T13:32:00.000+02:002008-04-05T13:32:00.000+02:00I think Joanna should've combatted her inner demon...I think Joanna should've combatted her inner demons and found the love to not only shake the hand of that guy but embrace him -- even though she disagreed with him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-3428311244876495542008-04-05T13:09:00.000+02:002008-04-05T13:09:00.000+02:00Dear Michael Farris:"Spiritual combat" is an old C...Dear Michael Farris:<BR/><BR/>"Spiritual combat" is an old Catholic term that has to do with introspection and examination of conscience to discern the most deep seated faults in one's nature. The "combat" involves rooting out such faults from one's nature using Church approved procedures. The infrastructure of the Church stands ready to help out when such help is needed. It's a method that with God's grace is effective in making virtues, and not vices, active in a person. <BR/>The word "combat" accurately describes the emotional situation within an individual as he or she denies the allure of wrong while trying to do the right thing.<BR/><BR/>As an aside comment, many in the older generation of Catholics today like the softer "spiritual journey" approach to religion (that phrase popped up in the article Geez linked to). Many in the younger generation are drawn to "spiritual combat".<BR/>"Spiritual combat" is well covered by many reputable Catholic websites.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-75416892937937826702008-04-05T12:59:00.000+02:002008-04-05T12:59:00.000+02:00Anon, I always have difficulty in determining who ...Anon, I always have difficulty in determining who is and isn't *competent.* And it's also difficult for me to put my faith in someone even if I think he or she is *competent* because I'm not so sure I'm *competent* to make that decision.<BR/><BR/>I know a coupla people who are very consciously Catholic and into various kinds of meditation (they are very well informed about Catholic concerns on the matter). But it's not for me at least at this point in my life.<BR/><BR/>I agree with you, at least on the surface, about the hard work and even non-violent combat of trying to live by the decalogue and practice the beatitudes. But I still fuck up. A lot. We all do. Consciously and not so much or at all so.<BR/><BR/>But gimme Thomas Merton and Dorothy Day any day. Less so Benny the Pope. And much, much, much, much less so the likes of Joanna Najfeld.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-50888160047054300962008-04-05T08:53:00.000+02:002008-04-05T08:53:00.000+02:00"that spiritual combat is better for us than some ..."that spiritual combat is better for us than some milquetoast "spirituality"."<BR/><BR/>What about collateral damage (or civilian casualties if you feel less euphamistic)?michael farrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10232229721381140090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-68531101977937770022008-04-05T03:46:00.000+02:002008-04-05T03:46:00.000+02:00Dear Geez:A very interesting article, thanks for t...Dear Geez:<BR/><BR/>A very interesting article, thanks for the link. It seems to me that in that article feelings and emotions were more or less equated with a very loosely defined "spirituality". The impression was made that most of the people quoted connected this "spirituality" with a pleasant emotional state, a "religious ecstasy" as one of them put it.<BR/><BR/>The default position of the CC on this is that such experiences should always be evaluated by someone competent in these matters. A mild distrust of such experiences is advised, and self diagnosis should be avoided. Experience shows that actively seeking out such emotional states often leads to predicaments beyond the competence of the individual involved.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps for most of us this type of "spirituality" should be left alone (let the geneticists play with it), and the hard work of living the Decalogue and the Beatitudes should be embraced. I'm of the opinion that spiritual combat is better for us than some milquetoast "spirituality".<BR/> <BR/>What dost thou thinketh, Geez?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-59355929912616132222008-04-05T02:26:00.000+02:002008-04-05T02:26:00.000+02:00And "Is God in Our Genes?" as discussed in Time Ma...And "Is God in Our Genes?" as discussed in Time Magazine<BR/><BR/>http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101041025-725072,00.html<BR/><BR/>and the Time on the book: The God Gene: How Faith Is Hardwired into Our Genes (Doubleday; 256 pages), by molecular biologist Dean Hamer. <BR/><BR/><BR/>"Chief of gene structure at the National Cancer Institute, Hamer not only claims that human spirituality is an adaptive trait, but he also says he has located one of the genes responsible, a gene that just happens to also code for production of the neurotransmitters that regulate our moods. Our most profound feelings of spirituality, according to a literal reading of Hamer's work, may be due to little more than an occasional shot of intoxicating brain chemicals governed by our DNA. "I'm a believer that every thought we think and every feeling we feel is the result of activity in the brain," Hamer says. <BR/><BR/>"I think we follow the basic law of nature, which is that we're a bunch of chemical reactions running around in a bag."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-89294244400825802672008-04-04T23:34:00.000+02:002008-04-04T23:34:00.000+02:00Well, I guess I was a little off on the title...Al...Well, I guess I was a little off on the title...<BR/><BR/>Also, the other I recommended was Laborem Exercens (I think I spelled it right this time), although it's about labor and social justice.<BR/><BR/>You can read all of JP2's encyclicals in multiple languages at:<BR/><BR/>http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/index.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-20695522395547642472008-04-04T22:08:00.000+02:002008-04-04T22:08:00.000+02:00Dear Michael Farris:Perhaps Geez was referring to ...Dear Michael Farris:<BR/><BR/>Perhaps Geez was referring to Pope Paul VI encyclical "HUMANAE VITAE". If you go the the Vatican's website (vatican.va) and put that title in the website's search engine, the text will come up. That one caused quite a stirr in the progressive Catholic circles when it came out a few decades ago.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-49703345102931403042008-04-04T17:00:00.000+02:002008-04-04T17:00:00.000+02:00"afraid the xxxCatholicismXXX will rub off? wuss! ..."afraid the xxxCatholicismXXX will rub off? wuss! wuss ! wuss!"<BR/><BR/>Hey, this year I apartment sat in order to accept kolęda for a friend who had to be out of town on that day.<BR/>I've even been in church for various reasons.<BR/>I even watch tv trwam sometimes (not for religious reasons though).<BR/><BR/>>>Seriously, it wouldn't kill you guys to read Laborum Excersens (sp?) and JP2's encyclical on love and fucking.<<<BR/><BR/>I find myself really hoping that's exactly how he put it, but I'm afraid I'd be disappointed. Find a convenient link and I might give it a quick read thru.michael farrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10232229721381140090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-32243760575701681092008-04-04T13:21:00.000+02:002008-04-04T13:21:00.000+02:00Oops, you did respond, anon.I'll read it and maybe...Oops, you did respond, anon.<BR/><BR/>I'll read it and maybe respond later...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-33935334554664052062008-04-04T13:18:00.000+02:002008-04-04T13:18:00.000+02:00anon: "I'm not sure if you've studied CC teaching...anon: "I'm not sure if you've studied CC teachings or read any encyclicals"<BR/><BR/>michael farris: "I'm quite sure I haven't."<BR/><BR/>michael farris: "afraid the xxxCatholicismXXX will rub off? wuss! wuss ! wuss!"<BR/><BR/>>>Seriously, it wouldn't kill you guys to read Laborum Excersens (sp?) and JP2's encyclical on love and fucking.<<<BR/><BR/>Oh and... when I made the primate comment I was responding to michael who wrote: <BR/><BR/>"(natural law)" comes from studies of the natural world (non-human primates, pre-industrial humans)"<BR/><BR/>I should have made clear that I responding in that context and didn't finish up.<BR/><BR/>When I get a chance, I will post some url's about those scientists and studies I referenced. Maybe their findings aren't as well established as global warming -- and won't convince you modernization-at-all-costs guys but hey...<BR/><BR/>And I didn't get a chance to read all the recent posts above but I'm still hoping to find something from anon on the Catholic Church's understanding of natural law.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-40616125562478668172008-04-04T12:46:00.000+02:002008-04-04T12:46:00.000+02:00Exactly. natural law, from Hobbes onwards (and eve...Exactly. natural law, from Hobbes onwards (and even before) is a human construct.beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-6749670474913145172008-04-04T11:11:00.000+02:002008-04-04T11:11:00.000+02:00"And uh, the concept of natural law ain't all that..."And uh, the concept of natural law ain't all that based on primates..."<BR/><BR/>Humans are primates.<BR/><BR/>I also just think it's strange that 'natural law' isn't derived (at least not primarily) from the natural world.michael farrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10232229721381140090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-69421988824614136222008-04-04T09:01:00.000+02:002008-04-04T09:01:00.000+02:00Scientific studies seem to suggest that our brains...<I>Scientific studies seem to suggest that our brains are all wired with the capacity and urge/drive/need(?)to believe in a supernatural being, no?</I><BR/><BR/>I would love to learn about the scientist who claimed that, Geez. very amusing.beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-40083072889548958562008-04-04T04:30:00.000+02:002008-04-04T04:30:00.000+02:00Dear Michael Ferris and Geez:The natural law that ...Dear Michael Ferris and Geez:<BR/><BR/>The natural law that I had in mind has to do with the constants, if you will, of the human heart and mind. That is, we're looking for those deeply held beliefs and behaviors that are independent of time, place, or culture. If such constants exist, we can analyze them, and then ask the bigger question - for what purpose do they exist, and does their existence imply that a moral law is engraved on the human heart? Then we can ask how this whole scheme came to be. <BR/>For example, we observe that two common behaviors, lying and honesty, tend to be treated the same across all cultures and times. One is treated as vice, the other as virtue. One is punished, the other rewarded. But why should this be so? What is the underlying mechanism, the law, that produces these predictable outcomes? <BR/>Same for behaviors such as compassion and cruelty. We are drawn to one and repelled from the other. But why?<BR/>Your list, Michael, embodies many such observations - but to discover the natural law in them, each one needs to be analyzed with a "why?".<BR/>It is by asking these "whys" that we notice an emerging pattern that shows, however tenuously at first, that we are capable of moral behavior. At that point we should obvioulsy ask, why?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-14774844018702029802008-04-04T02:51:00.000+02:002008-04-04T02:51:00.000+02:00Scientific studies seem to suggest that our brains...Scientific studies seem to suggest that our brains are all wired with the capacity and urge/drive/need(?)to believe in a supernatural being, no?<BR/><BR/>And uh, the concept of natural law ain't all that based on primates...<BR/><BR/>I don't feel up to trying to splain it. Not sure I understand it that well. Maybe anon will...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-73483761794078341802008-04-04T00:35:00.000+02:002008-04-04T00:35:00.000+02:00"I, a member of the faceless hoi polloi, am truly ..."I, a member of the faceless hoi polloi, am truly honored and humbled" <BR/><BR/>And well you should be...<BR/><BR/>"I'm not sure if you've studied CC teachings or read any encyclicals"<BR/><BR/>I'm quite sure I haven't.<BR/><BR/>"Maybe we should stick to natural law"<BR/><BR/>Maybe we shouldn't. If we're talking about sex, and I assume we are, the picture of human sexual behavior that comes from studies of the natural world (non-human primates, pre-industrial humans) is, I think, not one either one of us would find very edifying.<BR/><BR/>I'd rather talk about how consciousness informs and shapes human sexual behavior.<BR/><BR/>If you're looking for my basic moral principles on sex, they are roughly as follows.<BR/><BR/>for single people:<BR/><BR/>Don't do anything you're not physically and mentally ready for.<BR/>Don't try to talk a partner into something they're not ready for.<BR/>Never force anyone.<BR/>Stick with adults.<BR/>Promiscuity (arbitrary provisional definition = more than three partners per week) isn't good for anybody physically or mentally.<BR/>Orient yourself towards relationships (essentially serial monogamy).<BR/>Be careful with your health and fertility.<BR/>When you're in a relationship, don't cheat.<BR/>If you find you're suddenly a parent-to-be, you need to settle down into a stable situation that provides for the kid as well as possible.<BR/><BR/>that'll do as a short beginning list.michael farrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10232229721381140090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-70150733263383119722008-04-04T00:14:00.000+02:002008-04-04T00:14:00.000+02:00"And is the idea of settling down an urge? A need ..."And is the idea of settling down an urge? A need maybe, but hardly an urge."<BR/><BR/>I should have said 'drive'. Humans (both male and female) have two contradictory sexual-social drives. One is to seek out variety, the other is to partner off and get out of the meat market.<BR/><BR/>Most people try to satisfy both sequentially by first sowing some wild oats and then settling down. <BR/>For most people neither drive ever really goes away completely, but the smarter ones realize that over time partnering is the smarter long term option and the potential benefits of screwing around are overshadowed by the costs of getting caught and having to go it alone again.<BR/><BR/>The dumber ones find themselves on Jerry Springer...michael farrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10232229721381140090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-45883082397098220532008-04-03T23:50:00.000+02:002008-04-03T23:50:00.000+02:00"You have the capacity and indeed the grace is the..."You have the capacity and indeed the grace is there for the pickin'"<BR/><BR/>No, I really don't. I could go thru the motions of religious observance but that's not faith or belief. <BR/>And what Holy entity would want me mouthing things I can't/don't believe, wouldn't an omniscient being see right thru that and not be impressed at all? If you (metaphorically) can imagine religious faith as a sense, it's one I just don't have. That doesn't make me against religion, I think aggressive atheists are massive pains in the ass.michael farrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10232229721381140090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-5149386311001084532008-04-03T23:36:00.000+02:002008-04-03T23:36:00.000+02:00Grow up, will you? And go wash your hands. By the ...<I>Grow up, will you? And go wash your hands. <BR/><BR/>By the way, who's "garnny"?</I><BR/><BR/>She's close family to a gurnny.beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-81217359616367756042008-04-03T23:09:00.000+02:002008-04-03T23:09:00.000+02:00Don't sell yerself short, Michael F! You have the...Don't sell yerself short, Michael F! You have the capacity and indeed the grace is there for the pickin' but you currently lack the will and/or desire. Give it a few years. And how can the CC or any religion be capable in any circumstance of imposing faith? Faith is personal and shared communally. And is the idea of settling down an urge? A need maybe, but hardly an urge.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com