tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post2433240520629273906..comments2024-03-13T03:13:59.610+01:00Comments on the beatroot: Idiot’s guide to Polish elections III – the ex-pat votebeatroothttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-61818320116162289682007-10-22T20:07:00.000+02:002007-10-22T20:07:00.000+02:00It's not a zero sum game! That's the beauty of all...It's not a zero sum game! That's the beauty of allocating resources where they're more productive. Both countries can gain.YouNotSneaky!https://www.blogger.com/profile/06378267534638281151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-45411795554644121272007-10-22T16:07:00.000+02:002007-10-22T16:07:00.000+02:00So I wonder how much growth rate is reduced in the...So I wonder how much growth rate is reduced in the UK, in that case? If you know the answer then don't tell the Daily Mail.beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-23005719072748597852007-10-22T11:50:00.000+02:002007-10-22T11:50:00.000+02:00Also you can have inside immigrants. Like moving f...Also you can have inside immigrants. Like moving from Torun to Kielce. Though why anyone would move to Kielce is beyond me:<BR/>http://www.jwieczorek.ans.pl/witkacy.htmYouNotSneaky!https://www.blogger.com/profile/06378267534638281151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-10886518035437307262007-10-22T11:39:00.000+02:002007-10-22T11:39:00.000+02:00Just wondering about whether you're talking people...Just wondering about whether you're talking people coming in or people going out.<BR/><BR/>According to the Rzepa article the money sent back add's from .2 to .3 of a percent to the growth rate. In terms of growth rates that's nothing to sneeze at, particularly if it all comes from one place. I'm not exactly sure how their economist got that number but it sounds plausible. And it's far more than what the people earning that money could contribute if they were back in Poland making much lower wages with much lower productivity (due in large part to crappy regulations).YouNotSneaky!https://www.blogger.com/profile/06378267534638281151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-23033760895101129402007-10-22T09:39:00.000+02:002007-10-22T09:39:00.000+02:00And do you honestly believe that the money sent ba...And do you honestly believe that the money sent back to Poland is causing the boom?beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-46085600698731027512007-10-22T09:38:00.000+02:002007-10-22T09:38:00.000+02:00'outside immigrants'...well, you can;t have inside...'outside immigrants'...well, you can;t have inside immigrants, can ya!beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-80229511568478409332007-10-22T00:50:00.000+02:002007-10-22T00:50:00.000+02:00What you know, I was just speculatin' above and th...What you know, I was just speculatin' above and then checked Rzepa for election results and found this:<BR/>http://www.rp.pl/artykul/5,63974.htmlYouNotSneaky!https://www.blogger.com/profile/06378267534638281151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-44100691554180350172007-10-21T23:21:00.000+02:002007-10-21T23:21:00.000+02:00"..which is all correct, but the reluctance of thi..."..which is all correct, but the reluctance of this government to grasp the nettle and open up the country to immigration will store up real bottle necks in the future. "<BR/><BR/>You mean Polish government opening up to outside immigrants? I totally agree on that. But they should do this regardless whether there's a lot of out migration or not. <BR/><BR/>"WE have a booming economy at a time of a 'brain drain.' That is quite unique - usually booming economies suck in labour...Poland is leaking its."<BR/><BR/>But part of the issue is exactly that you might have reverse causation here. Some Poles go abroad. They send money back (or they go back after sometime themselves, with savings and higher skills) and then that money fuels construction, business start ups etc. back in Poland. <BR/>To be exact, I'm not arguing that the entire boom is fueled by remittances and the money from abroad. But it probably adds to it.YouNotSneaky!https://www.blogger.com/profile/06378267534638281151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-28089563098202233352007-10-21T14:03:00.000+02:002007-10-21T14:03:00.000+02:00The phenomenon beatroot mentions of a booming econ...The phenomenon beatroot mentions of a booming economy coinciding with an exodus of workers is not quite unique to Poland - it's also apparent in the Baltic States. For instance, the Latvian economy has been overheating for some time, yet it's also seen a larger percentage of its population leave the country than Poland has (see this week's article from the Economist on the possible devaluation of the Lat).<BR/><BR/>I agree that they need to tackle labour bottlenecks though, particularly in Warsaw (I have a friend who regularly drives along the road towards Poznan to a certain petrol station about 40Km out in order to pick up Ukrainian workers to help build his house).Tim Harrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08523365298667152272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-59435415697929396302007-10-21T10:45:00.000+02:002007-10-21T10:45:00.000+02:00...which is all correct, but the reluctance of thi......which is all correct, but the reluctance of this government to grasp the nettle and open up the country to immigration will store up real bottle necks in the future. It is happening laready. WE have a booming economy at a time of a 'brain drain.' That is quite unique - usually booming economies suck in labour...Poland is leaking its.beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-1761983059980212542007-10-21T07:04:00.000+02:002007-10-21T07:04:00.000+02:00Sorry, I didn't have time to respond earlier."So y...Sorry, I didn't have time to respond earlier.<BR/><BR/>"So you don't agree it would be a good idea to get people back to Poland? "<BR/><BR/>Not by itself. It would be a good idea to make the Polish economy a modern and robust one which generates high incomes, but that is a good in itself, and people coming back because of it would just be a side effect.<BR/><BR/>"Getting young Poles back home is good for the economy as they add skills, labour, dynamism and entrepreneurship."<BR/><BR/>Maybe, maybe not. The return to those skills, labour, dynamism and entrepreneurship is lower in Poland than abroad. So it may very well make sense - and be better off even for folks back home - if those young go abroad, get the higher wages and send remittances back home. Then people back home can use the remittances to start up new business, employ more people, build new houses etc.<BR/><BR/>Also, there's a pretty large literature on the effects of the so called "brian drain" and the results seem to be pretty mixed. Even if it is somewhat costly for some countries sometimes, it's hard to argue that these costs are large. Or that they're greater then the benefits of remittances by migrants, which are very very large (there's more remittance money then foreign aid flows and for some countries more than trade flows)YouNotSneaky!https://www.blogger.com/profile/06378267534638281151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-77188165966413648972007-10-21T03:07:00.000+02:002007-10-21T03:07:00.000+02:00You don't mean libertarianism as in the US? More ...You don't mean libertarianism as in the US? More likely something similar to Graeme from East dakota?Frank Partisanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03536211653082893030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-69774239775856304502007-10-20T17:18:00.000+02:002007-10-20T17:18:00.000+02:00M. Farris wrote:"owners of said bazaar who can and...M. Farris wrote:<BR/><BR/>"owners of said bazaar who can and should deny admittance to anyone they please for any reason they please"<BR/><BR/>Geez wrote<BR/>"Isn't that the way the K-twins feel about you furriners?"<BR/><BR/>I write:<BR/><BR/>Not really. They're actually making it easier for employers to employ foreigners, cutting the fees, bureaucracy, etc.<BR/>http://thenews.pl/archives/1508-Breakthrough-in-employing-foreigners-in-Poland.html<BR/><BR/> May have something to do with the shit loads of Chinese that will help prepare the country for Euro2012.<BR/>http://www.masterpage.com.pl/outlook/200710/polishlaborshortage.htmlDamien Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15814470741668910052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-86448990583766260322007-10-20T16:24:00.000+02:002007-10-20T16:24:00.000+02:00Korwin Mickey? Never, ever vote for a politician w...Korwin Mickey? Never, ever vote for a politician who wears a bow tie � they are near3y always wankers. <BR/><BR/>Libertarianism sees the individual, and voluntary collectivities comprising individuals, as sovereign. So the state should have the right to interfere in their affairs, except in certain circumstances � see JS Mill for those circumstances. <BR/><BR/>Even when I was a paid up member of the Lefty Club I always thought that the state acted in the interest of the powerful etc. What did Marx say � the state in the executive branch of the bourgeoisie...or something like that. <BR/><BR/>As it is, the state in the west seems to think it has the right to regulate intimate areas of personal behaviour � from smoking in pubs, how much wine we dink in the privacy of our own homes (the latest wheeze by New Labour in the UK) to Anti-Social Orders, curfews etc. In Poland they seem to think that it is the states business what sexuality you are. Etc. <BR/><BR/>And western states seem to think they have the right to dictate to poorer states how they develop, the fate of their dictators etc.<BR/><BR/>I think communities and individuals can take those decisions for themselves.beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-8613438420171464012007-10-20T15:01:00.000+02:002007-10-20T15:01:00.000+02:00M. Farris wrote:"owners of said bazaar who can and...M. Farris wrote:<BR/><BR/>"owners of said bazaar who can and should deny admittance to anyone they please for any reason they please"<BR/><BR/>Isn't that the way the K-twins feel about you furriners?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-70844608998732197752007-10-20T14:21:00.000+02:002007-10-20T14:21:00.000+02:00The ideological libertarian position (as I underst...The ideological libertarian position (as I understand it) would be that admittance to the bazaar should depend on the owners of said bazaar who can and should deny admittance to anyone they please for any reason they please (including race, religion, health status etc).<BR/><BR/>However, if the land the bazaar takes place on is 'public property' then restoring it to private ownership is of far greater urgency that complaining about baby carriages and/or bicycles.michael farrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10232229721381140090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-9912090901983349712007-10-20T13:55:00.000+02:002007-10-20T13:55:00.000+02:00BR, expand on the libertarian party thingy you sai...BR, expand on the libertarian party thingy you said. I fear U.S. readers quickly passing by here will pick you up wrongly. I know you're not a Korwin-Mickey fan, so clarify what beatroot-libertarainism would look like.<BR/><BR/>Would you put restrictions on people from bringing super-truck sized prams and idiots bringing bicycles into my local bazaar on a Saturday aftejavascript:void(0)<BR/>Publish Your Commentrnoon when it's so jam-packed that some shoppers even end up crowd-surfing to get to the exit gate? Or does that breach libertarian freedom of movement, assembly, right to buy spuds with a bit of muck on them, etc. ;)Damien Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15814470741668910052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-16988490273871606972007-10-19T23:20:00.000+02:002007-10-19T23:20:00.000+02:00I could _almost_ accept a narrow PiS victory if it...I could _almost_ accept a narrow PiS victory if it meant kicking the sorry asses of both LPR and SO out of the sejm.<BR/><BR/>A PiS victory plus either of those clown-car crazee shows still with a toe in the door would be too much.<BR/><BR/>and beat, mr. chodakiewicz (approvingly linked to by the lovely jannovak) thinks of Jan "keep those cripples away from my kids" Korwin-Mikke as a libertarian (HA! HA! HA! libertarians! you get korwin-mikke!!!!). Will you be voting for him?michael farrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10232229721381140090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-82703823330341581082007-10-19T22:29:00.000+02:002007-10-19T22:29:00.000+02:00'I wanna see those bastards thrown out of parliame...'I wanna see those bastards thrown out of parliament'<BR/><BR/>I'd like a ringside seat, please.<BR/><BR/>But don;t forget, they've got a pile of novenas being bellowed to the high heavens this weekend so watch their numbers eternally rise to vomit-churning numbers during the count as the worst of Poland's clerics' incantations instruct nasty, fallen putrid seraphims and cherubims to divinely aid the Giertych machine.<BR/><BR/>Why do we want to see Roman's tail trail out of the Sejm. Well, it's because he says things like this?<BR/><BR/>"In Polish and European culture, people are dressed, not undressed. If someone wants to imitate the customs of Bantu tribes or the Masai, they should move from Europe to Africa."<BR/><BR/>-Roman Giertych, explaining why he is against women sunbathing topless on the beach (July, 2003)Damien Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15814470741668910052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-68202326288889276402007-10-19T22:27:00.000+02:002007-10-19T22:27:00.000+02:00Poles in GB make it into a audio slide show in the...Poles in GB make it into a audio slide show in the NY Times:<BR/><BR/>http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/business/20071019_MIGRANTS_FEATURE/index.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-42669637048545758752007-10-19T20:02:00.000+02:002007-10-19T20:02:00.000+02:00PGB are churning out the polls, which are, in them...PGB are churning out the polls, which are, in themselves, all over the place. <BR/><BR/>On balance, I still think it is odds on the Ducks. But, to be honest, its a duck shoot...or something. That's what is facinating about Polish elections - so many unknown unknowns....etc. <BR/><BR/>Question is: why are polls in Poland sooooo all over the place. I have been swatching and studying opinion polling for 20 years (it was a major part of the my degree) and I have never seen more unreliable polls than in Poland, It's a strange one. The opinion poll industry is worth millions and millions of zloty but if they cannot be relied apon, then what the f...are people paying for? <BR/><BR/>One of the worrying things about the latest PGB poll is that LPR are on five percent - enough to get into Sejm. I wanna see those bastards thrown out of parliament.beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-81342145129216529132007-10-19T18:42:00.000+02:002007-10-19T18:42:00.000+02:00I hope the PO elephant will charge and its ivory t...I hope the PO elephant will charge and its ivory tusk will blow the PiSsed ducks off their Ciemnogrodzki pond...soniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00938174968325568608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-44711821641375352552007-10-19T18:33:00.000+02:002007-10-19T18:33:00.000+02:00Last PGB poll before the election:http://www.pgb.o...Last PGB poll before the election:<BR/><BR/>http://www.pgb.org.pl/KOMUNIKATY/PGB_2007_25.pdf<BR/><BR/>PO 35%<BR/>PiS 31%<BR/>LiD 17%<BR/>PSL 8%<BR/>LPR 5%<BR/><BR/>outside - SO 3% others 1%michael farrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10232229721381140090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-65775620316126135532007-10-19T18:27:00.000+02:002007-10-19T18:27:00.000+02:00Lepper was heard saying as the microphones went of...Lepper was heard saying as the microphones went off on a press conference last week that 'Everyone knows there will have to be another election in January.' Perfectly possible. But the PGB poll is interesting...they seem to be the only people who can get people to admit to voting PiS.beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-35991919870398425992007-10-19T18:10:00.000+02:002007-10-19T18:10:00.000+02:00Turnout is the key.The people are pissed off. They...<I>Turnout is the key.</I><BR/><BR/>The people are pissed off. They <I>will</I> vote. We must remember that these polling stations are being setup because the people requested them. That, by itself, speaks volumes. <BR/><BR/>For Kaczyński any result other than getting 231 seats or more is a defeat, because nobody will want to form a coalition with him (unless there is a split within PO). And nobody since 1989 has managed to get these 231 seats. The polls do not indicate that, either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com