tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post114872887227819232..comments2024-03-20T10:19:56.838+01:00Comments on the beatroot: The Pope and Radio Maryjabeatroothttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-21252637028548399092023-05-08T09:03:45.449+02:002023-05-08T09:03:45.449+02:00kobe byrant shoes
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Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-74112078004021652542007-02-14T21:08:00.000+01:002007-02-14T21:08:00.000+01:00Enjoyed a lot! » »Enjoyed a lot! <A HREF="http://www.cheap-hotel-in-rome.info/shaw-gmc-calgary.html" REL="nofollow">»</A> <A HREF="http://www.contact-lens-fitting-5.info/Temporary_life_insurance.html" REL="nofollow">»</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-1162361882074241862006-11-01T07:18:00.000+01:002006-11-01T07:18:00.000+01:00Dera Beatroot,Saying that one of the AIMS of the P...Dera Beatroot,<BR/>Saying that one of the AIMS of the Pope to come over to Poland is to come hard on Radio Maryja is SICK. I bet if the Pope desires, he's got better tools than wishes. Then, the link you added is stupid too. The article is worthless. RGDS,<BR/>patrick, harvardAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-1148891126785692772006-05-29T10:25:00.000+02:002006-05-29T10:25:00.000+02:00It is a good discussion. Anonymous!!! Are you sugg...It is a good discussion. <BR/><BR/>Anonymous!!! Are you suggesting that Radio Maryja and their guests are NOT anti-Semitic? That's a novel point of view and I would like to hear more about it. Maybe they have been grossly misrepresented in the media and should really be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize?beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-1148858052763512492006-05-29T01:14:00.000+02:002006-05-29T01:14:00.000+02:00Excellent discussion, very interestingLikening cri...Excellent discussion, very interesting<BR/><BR/><I>Likening criticism of Israel to anti-Semitism is very annoying and stupid. It's the same as claiming that anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism</I> <BR/><BR/>True, there is a HUGE difference between anti-semitism and anti-Zionism, but such simplifications are rampant everywhere. Example: many leftists immediately accuse the US of colonialism and imperialism every time Washington dares to criticize a Third World dictator for rigging an election or oppressing his own people. <BR/><BR/>As for anti-semitism, the problem is that this term isn’t specific enough, it seems to include everybody from people who despise Jews for allegedly being too weak, and those who fear them for allegedly being too powerful. Those aren’t the same people and to lump them all together isn’t very useful. A bleeding-heart leftist who believes that all Palestinians are being exterminated has nothing in common with a white supremacist who blames Jews for introducing ‘weak’ Christian and liberal values that allegedly glorify victims and denounce the conquerors. The former concentrate their criticism on Israeli Jews, the latter on Diaspora Jews. The tragedy of the Jewish people is that they constantly find themselves in the crossfire of this eternal dispute and end up being persecuted no matter what…soniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00938174968325568608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-1148833879248941782006-05-28T18:31:00.000+02:002006-05-28T18:31:00.000+02:00I think your view of the anti-Semitism in Poland i...I think your view of the anti-Semitism in Poland is too simplistic. It's not so that there are just obsessed anti-Semites mumbling nonsense under their noses. <BR/><BR/>Note, for example, that the recent wave of attacks on Radio Marya came after Mr. Michalkiewicz referenced Filkenstein's book in his commentary that was broadcast there. Main issue raised was his allegation that an American Jewish organization seeks huge sums of money for from the current Polish state for the real estate and possessions left by the Jews murdered by Germans. He underlined that said organization has no relation whatsoever with the relatives or descendants of those murdered and in his opinion is probably looking just to extract money for their own, private benefit. <BR/><BR/>Interestingly, no one ever told that he was wrong or provided any rebuttal to the legal analysis that was part of his commentary. Having accidentally listened to it I was deeply shocked when the author was accused of being an anti-semite. Some even started calling for the Radio Maryia to be closed by the state - such calls coming from supposedly serious politicians raise questions about their commitment to upholding the freedom of the press in Poland. <BR/><BR/>I think part of the problem, right now, is that some Jewish politicians and clerics react to any criticism of any Jewish organization or the state of Israel itself by accusations of anti-semitism and not by discussing the issues. Some clearly think, that the Holocaust makes any kind of criticism of a particular Jewish organization, party, policy or Israel impossible. However, Jews, as any other nation in the world, are not all angels and are prone to err or do things others don't like. By censoring any such criticism and viciously attacking anyone who dares do disagree with some of their view many of the current Jewish leaders are, I'm afraid, building a foundation for the future, true anti-semitism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-1148833468098109492006-05-28T18:24:00.000+02:002006-05-28T18:24:00.000+02:00Rivka, I've lived in Poland for over 10 years and ...Rivka, I've lived in Poland for over 10 years and am fluent in Polish (no Polish ancestory whatsoever that I'm aware of).<BR/><BR/>The idea that Polish people have a different definition of 'anti-semitic' and have a simplistic view of the past is the result of lots of conversations with lots of people, most of them pretty well educated. Other people may have different experiences, whatever.<BR/><BR/>The idea that the Polish working class urban population are closer to peasants in mentality and custom than is common in Europe is hardly new to me. I first came across it in an ethnographic article on food habits (written in Polish). But it's not original with me.<BR/><BR/>But, over all, I agree with you that things are much better now than even a few years ago. Outlets of antisemitic media are relatively few and alienate and/or disgust many/most Polish people (pretty much everyone with middle class background or ambitions). It's not perfect, but things are almost entirely moving in the right direction, which is a very good thing.<BR/><BR/>But ... the real problem in Central Europe (including most of the German cultural sphere) isn't anti-semitism per se, it's the desire for scapegoats when things go wrong (or right, for that matter). Fortunately, Jewish people are very unlikely to fulfill that role for those who want someone to blame their problems on.<BR/>In the modern Poland of today, immigrants from poor countries (Vietnamese, Arabs and Africans especially) and some social groups (gays and 'communists'*) are much more likely to fit the bill.<BR/><BR/>*they weren't and aren't communists in any real sense, but the Kaczynski government's desire for a witch hunt dovetails very closely with the desire of many for sometone to blame.michael farrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10232229721381140090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-1148831404218646382006-05-28T17:50:00.000+02:002006-05-28T17:50:00.000+02:00Michael, you are making a very general statement a...Michael, you are making a very general statement about Polish-Jewish relations and basically applying a stereotype to the entire country of Poland. It doesn't bode well for any form of reconciliation between the two groups. Furthermore, you aren't providing any concrete sources for your allegations. It's only your opinion. Do you even live in Poland? Have you read the many opinions by Jews living in Poland today? I'm living proof. Please, visit www.joo.com.pl, purchase Midrasz Magazine, and visit the Lauder Foundation if possible. Try to see that we have a flourishing community in Poland.<BR/><BR/>Beatroot, I was speaking about 'individual' and 'state sponsered' anti-semitic events, all types.<BR/>Within the Jewish community as well, a controverial debate exists on what actually consists of 'anti-semitism'. Your point is well taken.<BR/><BR/>I fully support what Jewish journalist Leslie Bunder once stated:<BR/><BR/>"<I>While there may be some in the Jewish community who want to stay in the past, the vast majority want to move forward with the future. They have the ideas and enthusiasm to make things happen. They want other Jews to show support to projects that celebrate living Jewish Polish life. <BR/><BR/>And that for me is what Poland is today. A place where Jews are living and enjoying life. A place where they have come to terms with their past and are moving forward and a place where other Jews should visit and have an open mind.</I>"<BR/><BR/>It would be nice to meet in person and organize a live symposium on such a topic. What do you think?<BR/><BR/>P.S. - Beatroot, I'm always very calm. :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-1148827894180038622006-05-28T16:51:00.000+02:002006-05-28T16:51:00.000+02:00A few random observations.IME experience most Poli...A few random observations.<BR/><BR/>IME experience most Polish people define anti-semitism as physical attacks (and support of same). Just thinking that Jewish people are out to control the world or that they have too much power or whatever isn't considered anti-semitic. <BR/><BR/>One great achievement of the anti-communist intellectuals was to shear away any intellectual veneer of support for anti-semitism. This means that those who publish or propogate anti-semitic views are viewed as bumpkins and or demented. Unfortunately, there's a pretty high percentage of unapologetic bumpkins in Poland. (by which I mean that to an unusual degree in Europe the urban working class is basically peasant in orientation and outlook).<BR/><BR/>Quick summary of standard Polish opinion (IME: ymmv) about Poland's Jewish heritage:<BR/>"Before WWII there were hardly any problems between Poles and Jews, the few problems that did exist were all the Jews' fault, of course."michael farrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10232229721381140090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-1148822898286678992006-05-28T15:28:00.000+02:002006-05-28T15:28:00.000+02:00But you are right...the problem with this discussi...But you are right...the problem with this discussion is a lack of definition of what actually constitutes 'anti-Semitism'. <BR/><BR/>Rivka has been concerntrating on acts of the state. In Poland there is no official anti-Semitism at all, so we can't pin that one of the country. <BR/><BR/>There has also been a low amount of physical attacks on Jews in Poland. I would argue that this is because the Jews that are left here are very integrated and not visible culturally. I say that because attacks on Africans is vastly underreported here and a significant problem for black people in Poland.<BR/><BR/>But where Poland is light years behind is on attitudes among the general populice about Jews and other people considered 'not like us'. <BR/><BR/>This is due, I think, to the monocultural nature of modern day Poland and how it missed out on the civil rights movements in the west starting in the 1960s. The commies have a lot to answer for there. <BR/><BR/>We are now seeing the start of these movements in Poland today - and this is a massive step forward and one which this blog activly supports.beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-1148820351556723122006-05-28T14:45:00.001+02:002006-05-28T14:45:00.001+02:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-1148820327949073072006-05-28T14:45:00.000+02:002006-05-28T14:45:00.000+02:00It is also an astonishing coincidence that it took...<I>It is also an astonishing coincidence that it took place just as your blog was discussing the matter.</I><BR/><BR/>Rivka - calm down.beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-1148820245374044142006-05-28T14:44:00.000+02:002006-05-28T14:44:00.000+02:00Romerican, I must agree, the ADL's report is shall...Romerican, I must agree, the ADL's report is shallow when solely depending on an individual's "opinion" to deduce the level of anti-semitism in any given social structure. I also refuse to accept the type of questions they used for their analysis. Actual incident or occurrence should form the basis of any report, and not the assumption of one's opinion. The report by UK's 'CST' is more reliable, because it is based on fact, and not opinion.<BR/><BR/>Beatroot, that alleged attack on Rabbi Michael Schudrich is bad news indeed. He is a well respected person in our community. It strikes me odd that in the 5 years he has been in Warsaw, such an attack should take place. It is also an astonishing coincidence that it took place just as your blog was discussing the matter.<BR/><BR/>Now the significant question is, was it an anti-semitic act or not? Rabbi Schudrich hasn't categorized it as such. Here is a description of the attack by Rabbi Schudrich according to the Reuter's article <A HREF="http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/world/international-crime-poland-rabbi.html" REL="nofollow">Poland's Chief Rabbi Attacked on Warsaw Street</A>. <BR/><BR/><I>``While I was walking in Warsaw, someone yelled 'Poland is for Poles','' Schudrich, a New Yorker who became chief rabbi of Warsaw in 2000 and of all Poland in 2004, told Reuters on Sunday.<BR/><BR/>``I went back and asked him why he said that and then he hit me and sprayed me with something like pepper gas.''</I><BR/><BR/>The proper way to investigate this matter is to ask the following questions. Did the offender who made the nationalistic comment say it specifically to Rabbi Schudrich, or was it just a public rant not aimed at anyone? Did he even know that Rabbi Schudrich was Jewish? Was the Rabbi in traditional Jewish garb, or wearing conservative civilian attire? Why did Rabbi Schudrich even approach the stranger that made the comment and ask him "<I>why he said that</I>" in the first place? Was the attacker even a Pole, or one of many foreigner's living in Warsaw, or a tourist visiting while the pope was in town? I ignore such ridiculous comments and would have just kept on walking instead of questioning somone unknown to me.<BR/><BR/>Most of our Jewish community have now been living in Poland peacefully and enjoying our life here amid a growing awareness and awakening of our Jewish culture. I only hope that as the authorities have suggested, G-d forbid, the act was not "<I>a provocation meant to portray Poland as an anti-Semitic country</I>".<BR/><BR/>What do you all think? Regardless of once such shameful act, it doesn't come anywhere near the high number of '<I>violent</I>' anti-semitic incidents which occur in the United Kingdom or France.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-1148820035828678212006-05-28T14:40:00.000+02:002006-05-28T14:40:00.000+02:00Rivka quotes the rabbi: "Britain's attacks on Isra...Rivka quotes the rabbi: <I>"Britain's attacks on Israel have nothing to do with a specific anti-Israel focus and have everything to do with good old-fashioned anti-Semitism."</I><BR/><BR/>Sorry, but I think that is just good old-fashioned bullshit. <BR/><BR/>Likening criticism of Israel to anti-Semitism is very annoying and stupid. It's the same as claiming that anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism. <BR/><BR/>A critique of a nation's oppression of another people is not the same as racism, which presumes personal and cultural characteristics on the basis of a perceived 'race'.<BR/><BR/>As a graduate of a respected university in London myself :-))) I say to the Rabbi: "Don't be so paranoid and silly and get yourself a decent political analysis. You will not shut up criticism of Israel by using the cheap racism card.beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-1148819112086005412006-05-28T14:25:00.000+02:002006-05-28T14:25:00.000+02:00Boycotts against Isreal are just silly. There is o...Boycotts against Isreal are just silly. There is one being mooted by some British university lecturers at the moment and its just a load of arse. <BR/><BR/>And we must remember that Isreal will not have sanctions made against it by anyone significant. The US is clear that the country is its little bit of turf in an otherwise hostile middle east and will continue to subsidise it until it stops being useful.<BR/><BR/>But I agree that Israel is democratic (if you are Jewish that is) and that is one of the many endearing things about it. <BR/><BR/>By the way, I spent half a year there once and completly and utterly love the place.beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-1148818079004387642006-05-28T14:07:00.000+02:002006-05-28T14:07:00.000+02:00One of the reasons Israel gets singled out for boy...One of the reasons Israel gets singled out for boycotts is that it is a parliamentary democracy. To boycott, for example, Iranian scholars would be to punish them for their dictatorial government's policies -- policies in which they have little or no say. With democracy comes responsibility. <BR/><BR/>This applies across the board: if Poland had been a democracy when it invaded Czechoslovakia the burden of guilt on individual Poles of the time would be much greater.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-1148813250547982612006-05-28T12:47:00.000+02:002006-05-28T12:47:00.000+02:00Warsaw police are looking for a young man accused ...Warsaw police are looking for a young man accused of attacking the Chief Rabbi of Poland, Michael Schudrich. The attack took place Saturday afternoon in downtown Warsaw.beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13112593.post-1148813161482337912006-05-28T12:46:00.000+02:002006-05-28T12:46:00.000+02:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.com